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Did you know? 1Thess 3:11 doesn’t simply say “God our Father” but “God Himself, our Father,” i.e., God is One Person not three!
Discussion
52 comments
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Wow. So instead of interpreting the Bible with the rest of the Bible we are to pull a verse out of context to try to refute the rest of the Bible? I can see how you’ve gone astray.
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Everything after i.e, is incorrect
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Yep He Himself is the Father of the Son and the Holy Spirit.. amen
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“But of the Son he (the Father) says, “Your throne, ????O God????, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.”
Heb 1:8 -
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, ????Mighty God????, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
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1 John 5:7,8 Three in One…
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“Unless you believe (Ego Eimi) you will die in your sins…”
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Can we not really identify who’s talking? Father, Son or the Holy Spirit? Or as one God (Godhead)?
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That’s enough of this. I’m tired of constantly defending the deity of Christ from the very people who claim to love Him.
John 1:1–5;14 (LEB):
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God. This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being. In him was life, and the life was the light of humanity. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it….
And the Word became FLESH and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth.”Matthew 3:13–17 (LEB): “Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John in order to be baptized by him. But John tried to prevent* him, saying, “⌊I need⌋ to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered and* said to him, “Permit it now, for in this way it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted him. Now after he* was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove coming upon him. And behold, there was a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.””
These passages clearly outline the Christ IS God and has been with God the Father since the beginning.
The account of Jesus Baptism shows the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit coexisting at the same time. Therefore, the Holy Trinity is confirmed.You reject this, you reject the Word of God and the Truth is not in you.
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Ephesians 1:11
“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to ????the counsel???? of his will,” AKA more than one input
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Trinity is spiritually discerned subject, this is a mystery that God revealed to the genuine believer of Christ. this matter cannot understand if a person still in the condition of natural man. it will just become unending discussion with all naive person.
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Why the issue? The Bible shows that God has revealed Himself in 3 different ways,but all are Good. Why the confusion? Can’t He be this way, even if it goes beyond our understanding of Him?
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Did you know that you cannot chop up a verse like that?
“Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you.”
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False logic
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So you would affirm that even before Jesus ascended, the disciples already embraced a theology that doesn’t match yours?
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
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Not only does this verse not teach monism (that God is one person), but citing one verse in isolation is not the way biblical doctrines are formulated. The doctrine of the trinity is based on multiple verses that teach: 1. that there is one God, and that 2. the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each God.
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The Father is God….The Son is God…..The Holy Spirit is God. Three distinct separate Persons sharing One Divine Nature. God is Three Persons
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Psalms 110:1 NLT
??The Lord said to my Lord,?? “Sit in the place of honor at my right hand until I humble your enemies, making them a footstool under your feet.”
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Rev1:8 I an Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John8:57-58 thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?…Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, u say unto you, before Abraham was , I AM.
John17:21 that they all may be one;as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us…
John17:5 And now, I Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Rev3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne… -
God is one in Being. There is only one God. But God has 3 persons.
1 What, 3 Whos.
The first question you have to ask yourself is, is Jesus God?
If you believe He isn’t then:
A) He’s a mere human being; therefore, born with a fallen human nature.
B) If born with a fallen human nature, he would have to die for his own sins.Also, you have to wonder why John said in his Gospel that Jesus is co-eternal with God and is God:
John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. ( John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 1:1-5, 14-17 1-17.ESVLong story short, Jesus is God. And the Trinity is valid doctrine.
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Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah Witness. There are all sorts of cult members that sneak into the Church to cause division and mislead the unwary. We need to grow up and wisely confront them with the Word of God as so many of the above good responses are doing.
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Why have we got all these false teachers on this page, where are the moderates?
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what an heretical deduction. the church has repudiated this ridiculous concept all through history.
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one of the clearest passages on the Trinity is Isaiah 48. And for those who don’t know the original languages of the Bible, which is most of us, the most common word in the Old Testament translated as God is “elohim” and is plural. When Deuteronomy 6:4 says, ““Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one” in Hebrew it means, hear, o Israel, the Lord our Gods, the Lord is one. Elohim is used starting with the description of creation in Genesis 1:1. It’s the 4th word with which the Bible starts. It’s used 29 times in the first chapter. How much clearer does He have to make it before people will accept, believe and trust it?
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go home Arius you’re drunk!
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Many reject oneness because they don’t understand it. We serve one God. He is omnipresent invisible spirit. He is also life, love, light, truth full of wisdom , understanding. He is the judge of us all and thankfully full of mercy. But the first two are ignored by many. They see God like the pagans saw their gods as an old man. God is everywhere scripture bears this out . He is invisible until He decides to manifest and usually for a specific purpose. God can do anything anywhere because nothing even exist except He sustains it by his power. He walked and talked with Adam, He was the burning bush , he was the cloud by day and the fire by night, Melchizedek was God in the flesh scripture says He had no father or mother , no beginning of days and Abraham paid him tithes. Yet at the same time God manifest in one place like in the tabernacle or the ark He is still everywhere. Thus saith the Lord , the heaven is my throne the earth is my footstool : where is the house that you build unto me. Isaiah 66:1 Many are like the Sadducees of Jesus day they don’t really believe in the invisible realm or omnipresent spirit. According to scripture we can be filled with new life , with a new spirit with power to overcome and this spirit is not a third part of a three minded , or personality of God it is Some of the omnipresent Holy Spirit of God Himself. What agreement hath the temple of God with idols ? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said , I will dwell in them ; I will be their God , and they shall be my people. 2 Corinthians 6:16 The Holy Spirit is God , And the angel answered and said unto her , The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born shall be called the Son of God. Jesus was also God they called Him Emmanuel interpreted is God with us. We must remember he became poor for our sakes. He left glory , omnipresence omnipotence and became a man. God poured some of His Spirit into a vessel going from infinite to finite. Jesus had all the limitations of man , he hungered, he grew tired, he even doubted his mission. But He was as much of God as a man could contain. Most places used by trinitarians to divide the godhead like where the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus are also examples of God making a point , like the dove was to show John without any doubt who Jesus was. There are as many other places that correctly demonstrate that Jesus was God. The Jews wanted to stone Him because He said He was the “I AM” which means God. Not for claiming to be a third party or just a son but God in the flesh. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness : God was manifest in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles , believed on in the world , received up into glory. 1Timothy 3:16 Christ in you ( the Holy Ghost ) the hope of glory . Colossians 1:27 We must be born again and of His Spirit to overcome. Jesus said His kingdom comes from within. The first man Adam was made a living soul ; the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening ( life giving) spirit (holy ghost). 1 Corinthians 15:45
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It is foolish to deny the Trinity. It is easy to see.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+3%3A13-17&version=NKJV -
Who then is the true God?
So it means we must ignore or remove the other passages that teaches three divine person. For example in Hebrews 1:8, the Father called the Son (Jesus( God. In this passage it’s crystal clear that the Father is not talking to himself but to the Son.
Another passage is Psalm 110, David saw the conversation between two Lords, The Lord (Yahweh Elohim) said to my Lord (Adonai).
Another example is Genesis 1:26-27, Lets us created man in our image and likeness. The question is to whom the Father is talking who have the the same power as him to create? The Answer is found in Job 33:4 and Heb 1:10.
Another example is in Matthew 28:19, in Greek if the two noun are preceded by definite article and joined by conjunction kai it means different subjects of person. In the case of Matthew 28:19, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are preceded by the definite article and joined conjunction kai. Which means, the distinction of their persons are definite. What really interesting is here is that they are united in power or authority, onoma or in the name of.I think you must check your doctrine in the light of you Bible not the Bible in the light of Traditions. I myself is challenging the Trinitarian doctrine to see if these doctrine taught me by the church is exegetically sound. Then I found out thees doctrines are biblically consistent withou distorting other passges of the Bible.
The Father is the one true God is perhaps one of the common arguments of those who deny Jesus as God and Savior by weakening his divine nature through showing some proof text and ignore the other text.
In John 1:18 is very clear, No one has ever seen [God], but the one and [only Son], who is himself [God] and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
In the book of John the word God attributes to both the Father and the Son. There are two things that you will notice here. (1) the distinction of Father and Son. In Greek the word only son or begoten is monogenes means “unique of it’s kind”. The question is what is the uniqueness of the Son? First; he is God, he is the only one who seen the Father, he has intimate relationship with Father from eternity (John 1:1-2, 17:5)
(2) equality of divine nature.
The word God (Theos, e.g, John 1:1-2, 18;17:3 and Ephesians 4:6) is primarily used for the person of Father and his divine nature. This distinguishes the divine fatherhood of the Father from the divine Messiahship of the Son Jesus, e.g Ephesians 4:6.When the author of New testament used God, it primarily refers to the divine fatherhood of the Father and when author used Jesus as God it refers to Divine Messiahship of Jesus of which equal with Father.
For example: this is what is writren in Romans 9:5,””Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.”A. Jesus is overall God for ever.
Now if Jesus is overall God for ever, how he can’t be God? And off course; since he is God overall then, there must no other God beside him.
Another example is in 1 Timothy 1:17, “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, [the only wise God,] be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen..
B. Jesus is the only wise God.
Now, if Jesus is the only wise God, then there is no other God who he is wiser than him.
The question is who then is the True God now?Another alternative explanation is Jesus is the Father, The Son and Holy Spirit.
The problem is they ignored these passages. Hebrews 1:8, “But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.” Matthew 28:19:20, Psalm 110.
Grammatically, the Father is talking to other person (Jesus) and not to himself.The plain interpration of these passages on John 17:3 and Ephesians 4:6 is Jesus acknowledge the Fatherhood of the other person of the Trinity as the only Father and he is the promise son.
And Paul the author of Ephesians emphasize the Fatherhood of the Father as the only Father. For according to the Bible These divine persons are equal. If the Father is Almighty ,and the Son is Almighty Revelation 1:8, and The Holy Spirit as Almighty Job 33:4. Therefore these three divine person are co-equal for there is no such thing as True Almighty and Lower Almighty.
The attributes Almighty on Father, Son and Holy Spirit is simply means the these three divine persons are equal in power. We called this the “three divine person in unity”, “Trias in Greek” and widely called this day “Trinity”.
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Here we go again !!
Another person denying the deity of Christ because they are not born again and therefore cannot received the in depth revelatory teaching of the Holy Spirit regarding the person of Christ,
Because that is what a denial of the deity of Christ truly amounts to, it is a clear indication that they are not born again. -
Ignorant post.
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Carlos Xavier, you’ve only been a member of this group for a couple of weeks and you’re already posting division and ridiculous information without proof. Why are you here, Carlos? To start your own page of worthless information you have no proof of? Submit your evidence to prove your theory, my friend. Otherwise, you’re just a clanging bell, lol.
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If Jesus was God, why did He have to pray?
Response: Hebrews 5:7 says that Jesus prayed “in the days of His flesh.”
Psalms 65:2 says, “O You who hear prayer, to You all flesh will come.”
When Jesus prayed, it was not one divine person praying to another; it was
flesh praying to Spirit, humanity praying to Deity, man praying to God, the
Son praying to the Father.
Why would one divine person need to pray to another? If that was
what was happening, then we would have to say that the second divine person
was inferior to the first divine person. That would mean that they are not
coequal at all. But when we understand that God was manifest in the flesh,
then we realize that while He was in the days of His flesh, Jesus had to do
what all flesh must do: pray to the One who hears prayer. Furthermore, He
was giving us an example of what it means to live in submission to God. -
They think they are wise but became fools! Simple doctrine of three person in one God they cannot understand because they are spiritually blind.
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Genesis 1:26
Let “US” create man in “OUR” image -
Study your Bible there are three not one but the three are the same as one .
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I like the verses in Matthew 27:46 where it says about the ninth hour Jesus cries with a loud voice… that is, “My Self, My Self, why have I forsaken Myself?”
You know, when God the Father, who cannot be in the presence of sin, had to leave Jesus(who is really Father God) because Jesus, the Son of God, took upon Himself the sins of the world… so God left Himself on the cross…yet He didn’t really leave, because Jesus was still there and Jesus is the Father… or in John 16 where Jesus says He must go to Himself, who sent Himself and that it is expedient for Him to go to Himself so that once He is gone, He can send Himself as the Holy Spirit so that the Holy Spirit or Jesus can come back and guide untruth and glorify Jesus (Itself).
Then it goes on to say that when we pray to the Father(Jesus) in Jesus(the Father’s) name, Jesus(the Father) will pray to the Father(really Jesus) for us because we loved Jesus(the Father) and believed that Jesus(the Father) came from the Father(Jesus) and came to the world and Jesus(the Father) must now go back to the Father(really Jesus/Himself)…
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It also says, “and our Lord Jesus.”
Taking Bible verses out of context and/or sharing partial Bible verses to support a false doctrine is heresy.
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Why are those who hold to the false doctrine of modalism allowed to even be in this group. This is a CHRISTIAN apologetics group, isn’t it?
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even if it says that, it doesn’t mean what YOU say it does.
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Let everything be established among 2-3 witnesses. One verse is not a valid revelation. There are many that point out the plurality of God.
The Lord your God is one means they are in agreement. With one focus.
Just like the apostles were in one accord.. Many = One. -
All three persons of the Trinity are always referred to as a Him, a masculine pronoun.
Also, who was Jesus referring to while doing “His” Father’s will? Who was the Father Jesus was praying to? How was God the Father talking from Heaven while God the Holy Spirit was descending and Jesus, God the Son was on Earth? Because they are three persons. The Trinity is in the Bible, just not the word Trinity. The idea is clear in Scripture.
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You can’t just use that one verse. You got to see the entire bible. If you consider every verse we know God is a Trinity.
There is one being, God. He is 3 persons. That’s it.
Like I am a human being. But as a human, I have one being, and I have one person. God is one being but 3 persons.
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God is one God; however, there are three persons in this one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
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It’s not good exegesis to use the closing of a letter to build theology!
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You mean to say the one who died on the cross is God the Father?
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God the Father did not send himself, he sent his son (John 3:16).
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The problem is the usual issue. When Scripture is being interpreted with the ‘mere’ use of human logic, it is misconstrued. The bible contains many mysterious passages simply because they are not of human origin (that’s why it’s called the Word of God). The Trinity pertains to God being one position occupied simultaneously by three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It’s not about ranking but simply of roles that they play. We gotta accept this matter as part of our faith (remember The Apostles’ Creed?), not merely because it’s intelligible.
“Trust in the Lord with all your heart; lean NOT on your own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5). -
a true doctrine is not formed from just one portion of scripture……what do the rest of the Bible teach?
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