I met a friend who is Jewish and he believes…

6 years ago • January 8, 2021 • by ourCOG

I met a friend who is Jewish and he believes that Jesus is the Messiah but is not God and Lord.
So i looked from the Old testament scriptures that shows Jesus is Yahweh. Or the second person of the Godhead.
Found one immediately in Gen 18. Gen 18 – we find Yahweh coming’ as a man to speak with Abraham, informing him that he will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Then in verse 19:24, it says “Yahweh rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah —from Yahweh of the heavens.”
-Yahweh appears to be both on earth and in the heavens, the person on the earth raining down sulfur from the person in heaven. (This shows 2 persons as Yahweh).

What other OT scriptures can you find Jesus in?

Categories: #ourCOG

Discussion

51 comments

Slaven Radic says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:41 am

Jacob’s wrestling match?

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Slaven Radic says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:43 am

Joshua and the Captain of the Lord’s army?

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Nick Shara says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:43 am

All 4 gospels validate John the baptist as “the voice crying in the wilderness”, preparing the way for Jesus. All 4 say that this fulfills the old testament prophecy. But the old testament prophecy said the way would be prepared for GOD! not for the messiah.

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord , make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Isaiah 40:3‭-‬5

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before ME: and ?the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple,? even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 3:1

Therefore, if John is this messenger sent before Jesus, then Jesus is God.

I have a lot more if you want..

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Susie Spriggs says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:44 am

Shadrach, Meshack and Abendigo in the furnace.

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Mark D. Calacala says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:47 am

Genesis 1:26
[26]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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Trenton Terrell says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:47 am

There is a really good debate on this https://youtu.be/Yn-grOfPDi0

There is also a second part but it’s amazing.

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Ray Roane says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:57 am

Zechariah 12, they will look on me whom they have pierced

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Ray Roane says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:01 am

I am a Messianic Jew myself, but my beliefs differ from your friend’s

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Simon Yew says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:15 am

Psalm 110:1 – The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.

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Jo Jo says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:17 am

Thank you all so much for the scriptures. I will share this to my friend. I hope he can see Jesus for who he is and accept him as Lord and Savior

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Kate Marie Wendi says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:21 am

Dr. D. James Kennedy had a whole series on all the Messianic OT prophecies that proved that Jesus was the Messiah. Holmon Bible Charts has a two page chart with many ioff them. Rose Bible Chart publishers as a good chart also. The Scofield System 2005, has a good one in Isaiah. There are a number if works. There is an old pamphlet by Fred Meldau that claimed there were 333 Messianic Prophecies, a little bit on the Sensational side. There was a little green book that took you step by step with full Scripture citations, but I don’t remember what that one was called.
David L. Cooper wrote a whole series of some nine books on the Messiahship of Jesus.
These are some sources for listings with Scripture. No two lists are exhaustive. No two lists completely agree.
Do research on lists of titles and names of Jesus and you have the same problem.

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John Joel Marudo Miranda says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:46 am

Jesus Christ existed before the foundation of the world.

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Kubowaki Julia says:

May 21, 2020 at 3:47 am

unfortunately many messianic do not believe in the divinity of Christ,

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Micah Torres says:

May 21, 2020 at 4:15 am

The Old Testament says that God alone knows what is in the hearts of mankind.
1 Kings 8:39b (ESV) “for you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind”

The New Testament says THIS about Jesus.
John 2:24–25 (ESV)“But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people
and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.”

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Joseph R. Diaz says:

May 21, 2020 at 4:31 am

In Daniel’s narration of the three Hebrew young men in the fiery furnace.

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Yosef Shum says:

May 21, 2020 at 5:09 am

As much as I’d like to use all the examples which are good of Jesus in the old Testament. Fact remains that the preincarnate Jesus is not the incarnate until after glorification and ascension. We need to keep this in mind when talking to Jews. Yeshua prior to transfiguration was a limited form .

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David Thang Kwee says:

May 21, 2020 at 5:14 am

Jesus is Messiah but not God, how he believes?

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Fred Galvez says:

May 21, 2020 at 6:15 am

Jesus said the Father and I are one John 10:30 if you have seen me you have seen the Father John 14:9

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Mark August says:

May 21, 2020 at 6:46 am

Noone taught 2 persons in YHWH until Philo and his theory was rejected by Rabbis in the 1st century.

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Jason Edward Miller says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:06 am

Isaiah chapter 9 verse six through eight.

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Todd Carpentier says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:07 am

Gen 1:26 Let us make man in OUR image. After OUR likeness.

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Powell Allen David Paulie says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:18 am

Isaiah 53

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Powell Allen David Paulie says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:18 am

I think Isaiah 42 or 43 too

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Jack Johnston says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:24 am

When you need to give your new upstart messiah prophetic religion cred, always a good tactic to glom onto another religion’s sacred text and read your guy back into those passages.

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StHelenes Desmayne says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:50 am

F.

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Brenton Cyrus Clark says:

May 21, 2020 at 8:55 am

That’s a great question man! The Bible project podcast has a whole series on God, and they spend a good chunk of time on how the authors of the Hebrew Bible (our Old Testament) understood certain aspects of God to be wholly God and yet distinct from Him. For example, “the Word” is a big concept in the Hebrew Bible. Often times the “Word” is depicted as a person, having human like attributes, yet He is treated as thought He were God. The Old Testament people who encountered the Word didn’t know it was Jesus specifically, but they absolutely had categories and conceptions that certain aspects of God were 100% God, and yet distinct from Him. In other words, the concept of the trinity was a concept in the OT, but wasn’t full formed till Jesus revealed it ? the same goes for the “the Name”, the “angel of the Lord”, the “spirit”, and other things that I don’t have space to jump into! here are some awesome resources to better understand!

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bibleproject/id1050832450?i=1000420801233

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bibleproject/id1050832450?i=1000421836000

These two links above are podcast episodes from the Bible project, but I’d listen to their entire series on God. It’s 22 episodes but so so good to better understanding the trinity ?

Also the book “the unseen realm” by dr Michael Heiser is phenomenal for better understanding the OT concept of a Trinity ? the book as a whole is about the spiritual worldview of ancient Israel, but he spends a lot of time on these concepts of something that is wholly God and yet wholly distinct. Enjoy!

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Marvin Jaurigue says:

May 21, 2020 at 9:03 am

That’s the dilemma of trinitarian doctrine. Messianic Jews will never uphold the trinity.

This explanation I attached came from a former trinitarian. Let your Jewish friend read this and I assure you he/she will agree.

————

In “Reasoning with my Trinitarian Friends”, I posted three undeniable truths to anyone who claims Christianity:
1. There is only One God.
2. God was manifest in the flesh.
3. Jesus is God.

I then posed this question, If we can agree that there is only One God and Father of all, and if we can agree that God was manifest in the flesh, and that Jesus was God, why is it so difficult to agree that Jesus was God the Father manifest in the flesh?

As a former Trinitarian, and one who took 6 months to convince through prayer and fasting that Jesus was in fact the embodiment of God the Father, I believe I can answer that question.
I believe it goes back to two main reasons:

1. Church Tradition
Some people are so intent on never changing their point of view, simply to preserve family or church tradition. I was one of those, and would have stayed right where I was if I had not tried to disprove the Oneness Doctrine by opening up my Bible. That is why I welcome people to start asking questions. For it is when you start reading your Bible and asking questions that you are telling God that truth means more to you than tradition.

2. The Son of God
Without a doubt, what Trinitarians stumble at the most, is the fact that Jesus came to this earth and was called the Son of God. The fact that Jesus prayed to the Father and spoke about the Father, has led many people to believe that He was a “second person”, or “God the Son”. The truth is, He was called the Son of God because He LITERALLY was. The Holy Spirit of God overshadowed Mary and she conceived a son (which by the way would have made Him the Son of The Holy Ghost if there are three persons – See Luke 1:35). Unlike any other born to man, Jesus did not have an earthly father. Mary was His mother, God was His father. He was the manifestation of God in flesh; God Himself came down to take on the form of a man in order to have blood to shed for our sins. (See Acts 20: 28; 1 John 3; 16)

Now here is the key verse to understanding this truth:
1 Timothy 2: 4 – 6 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Did you catch all that? First, It is God’s desire that we be saved. Second, that will only happen when we come to the knowledge of truth. Third there is ONE GOD and ONE MEDIATOR between God and man – THE MAN Christ Jesus. When Jesus spoke about the Father, He spoke as the man Christ Jesus. When He prayed, He prayed as the man Christ Jesus. All along, God was in Christ; the Father was in the Son; the Spirit was in the body – reconciling us back to God:

2 Corinthians 5: 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them …

As a Trinitarian, I couldn’t understand the Oneness because I could comprehend the distinction between the Spirit of God and the fleshly body of Christ. That was until I realized how God used Christ to be our Mediator, our Propitiator – our substitute sacrifice and ransom for our sins! It fired me up to no end to know that He didn’t send a second person to endure to pain, shame, and humiliation – He took on a body and did it all just for me.

Since the Garden of Eden, God laid the groundwork that blood must be shed as an atonement for the sins of man. The Passover showed us that a lamb without spot and blemish must be sacrificed. The book of Hebrews tell us that these things were a shadow of what was to come, for the blood of bulls and goats was no longer sufficient. (See Hebrews 10: 1 – 13) This is why Jesus is referred to as the Lamb of God. Another way of saying that would be “the sacrifice of God” or “God’s sacrifice”. The prophetic statement by Abraham, “God will provide himself a lamb” (Gen. 22: 8 came true right before our eyes.)

God spoke in various ways, an appeared in various forms in the Old Testament. But His final Word was Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 1: 1, 2 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son…

How did God speak to us? How did God reveal (manifest) Himself to us? How did God demonstrate His love for us? How has God chosen to save us? The answer is undoubtedly through the person of Jesus Christ. When you receive the revelation of God in Christ, it will change your whole world. It will give purpose to your life and a reason to be excited about serving God.

There is absolutely nothing that compares to learning that The Father of all creation came to earth as a man and died for your sins. When God gave His only begotten Son, He gave His only begotten body:

1 John 3: 16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because HE LAID DOWN HIS LIFE for us…

Acts 20: 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which HE HATH PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

I sincerely ask you to open up your Bible, and discover that Jesus was wrapped in more than just swaddling clothes – He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob wrapped in human flesh.

@Back on Track Bible Studies – Rick Flores 2013

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Chuck Suen says:

May 21, 2020 at 9:50 am

If you can, check out a radio station called AFR (American Family Radio) one of their early morning segment is done by two Messianic Jews that explain the Jewish connection to Christianity and Jesus.

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David C. Paulk says:

May 21, 2020 at 9:58 am

Check out the Jewish Targumims. Also look at books by Tov Rose. He is a Messanic Jew and has done extensive work in this area. Check out his books ‘Jesus in the Targums’ and ‘Jesus in the Old Testament’. As well as his New Messanic Version Bible translation.

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Julian CK Liew says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:05 am

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE Lord OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Jeremiah 23:5‭-‬6 KJV

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David Janaro says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:12 am

John 1:1 identifies Jesus as “the word” in the OT. So, for example, “The word of the LORD came to Abraham in a vision” (Genesis 15:1). You see examples of this throughout the OT, John is most clearly referring to God creating by “speaking” beginning in Genesis 1:3. God created through his word. This same “word of the Lord” is used interchangeably with “the LORD” throughout the OT (“Abram said, ‘Sovereign LORD…” Gen. 15:2) See also Exodus 3:2 and compare with Exodus 3:6 where the “Angel of the LORD” is then called “the LORD.” Angel can also mean “messenger” and is another way of referring to this divine “word of the LORD” who is both God and in some way not identical with God the Father. The Greek construction in John 1:1 captures this mysterious relationship perfectly in a way that English cannot, but the point is clear, the Word can both be “with God” (distinct from God) and the Word “was God” (equal with God). But clearly only one God.

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David Marmolejo says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:16 am

Look at the book of Daniel 7. Ask Him, who is Daniel 7 talking about?

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Brad Hudson says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:18 am

Isaiah 53 is just one place.

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

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Joseph Ace says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:28 am

God planned the universe jesus christ executed that plan so he is the one who created heaven and earth and everything extended from him check out John 1:1.

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Joseph Ace says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:29 am

My apologies for the uncapitalize j & c.

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William Mc Sr. says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:40 am

if what you say is true, explain the gospel of john 7-28-29 then cried jesus in the temple as he taught, saying ye both know me and you know whence I am;and I am not come of myself ,but he that that sent me is true , whom you know not but I know him ;for iam from him,and he hath sent me

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Carlos Sotelo says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:43 am

If He believes Jesus is THE Messiah (which means a leader or savior of a particular group or cause.) but is not God then he believes in a false messiah.

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Ricky Fuller says:

May 21, 2020 at 11:24 am

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”

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Marco Antonio Moreno Gutierrez says:

May 21, 2020 at 12:11 pm

Prophecy when Jesus is coming back to earth to judge the nations with Rod of Iron.

“Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭14:3-4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Now read acts 1:12 “The mount of olives” same place where Jesus was taking up to heaven, the same place where He will come again.

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JoAnne Harris says:

May 21, 2020 at 12:32 pm

When Joshua was searching out Jericho and a warrior appeared in front of him… “When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” And the commander of the Lord ‘s army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭5:13-15‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/jos.5.13-15.esv

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Keith Wood says:

May 21, 2020 at 1:56 pm

Isaiah 53!!

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Vern Nandal says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:40 pm

The angel of the Lord and the burning bush ! Isa 9:6 is the biggest everlasting Father Mighty God that i can think off the top of my head

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Vern Nandal says:

May 21, 2020 at 2:46 pm

Isa 44:8

Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’ ”
who is the rock ? lol why was Moses not allowed to enter the promise land ? The Rock Jesus was to be struck once ! Moses misrepresented God

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Bob Jones says:

May 21, 2020 at 6:14 pm

Well that makes no sense because the Messiah is God

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Richie Porter says:

May 21, 2020 at 6:30 pm

Genesis 2:7
Exodus 33:11

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Gus Rodriguez says:

May 21, 2020 at 7:54 pm

Hi Jo Jo, compare Isaiah 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

And Matthew 3:1In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

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Trey Dowdey says:

May 21, 2020 at 10:48 pm

https://www.bibleref.com/Genesis/1/Genesis-1-26.html

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Treeswalking Nathan Chesher says:

May 22, 2020 at 11:02 am

I would add that melchezadedeck is God yes and I believe He can be anywhere on the earth and send firey sulfur from heaven he does not have to be in heaven to do it.

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Gerald Joseph Navarro says:

May 22, 2020 at 11:09 am

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word is God.

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

John 1

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Gerald Joseph Navarro says:

May 22, 2020 at 11:09 am

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word is God.

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

John 1

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I met a friend who is Jewish and he believes… #ourCOG – ourcog says:

January 8, 2021 at 6:39 am

[…] I met a friend who is Jewish and he believes… […]

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I met a friend who is Jewish and he believes…

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