There is no gap between Daniels 69th and 70th week found in the text, refute me with scripture
Discussion
40 comments
-
Wont happen without some major gymnastics ?
-
Then explain to me what “the flood” was.
-
there is no such gap so I can’t refute you lol
-
One word – Israel.
-
You obviously aren’t interested in the truth. The gap is self evident and comes from comparing numerous passages of Scripture.
The foundational question is, Do you accept the distinctions God has made between national Israel and the Church, and reject replacement theology by that or any other name?
Otherwise, a brief review:
Israel was required to observe a Sabbath rest of the land every 7 years.
They disobeyed 70 times. (70×7 = 490)God told Daniel that He is taking back those 490 years from Israel.
The prophecy is for Israel and Jerusalem.
It was to bring an end to Israel’s transgression, and an end to sin (fulfilling the promise to Abram to bring a blessing to all the peoples of the earth).The first 69 weeks were literally fulfilled beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem in Nehemiah 2, and ending in Christ’s Triumphal Entry (celebrated as Palm Sunday). By the Jewish calendar, exactly 483 years to the very day. Afterward Jesus lamented how Israel had missed their “time of visitation.”
4 days later Messiah the Prince was “cut off.”
It was 37 years before the people (Romans) of the prince who is to come (Antichrist) destroyed Jerusalem and temporarity dispersed the Jews.
There is no biblical or historical fulfillment of the 70th week. It will be literally fulfilled in the (restored) nation of Israel who will rebuild the Temple and restore sacrifices (even though it’s not acceptable to God).
There is no 7 year covenant, the AntiChrist has not appeared, no one has yet entered the Temple (which presently does not exist) to declare the apostasy of all apostasies that he is God.
God’s program for Israel has been on hold now for some 2000 years. This is consistent with Jesus reading from Isaiah 61 (Luke 4) where He stopped short of , “…and the day of vengeance of our God…”
The Time of Jacob’s trouble, great Tribulation such as the world has never seen, is about God cleansing and purging national Israel. The Holocaust will pale in comparision.
It has not happened yet.
We have not yet reached Revelation 4:1.This is the Word of God.
You are no longer uninformed or misinformed. You can now rejoice with us in the Truth!
For futher information start with teaching from Grace to You.
-
The midst of the 70 week is the same as 69 and 1/2.
Count ….1…..2 …..3……4
If I say the midst of the 1st year that is 6 months.
Midst of 3 year is 2, 1/2 years.
The writer is saying the same thing two different ways to make sure its understandable.
Yet we get a magic week out of it.
-
You mean the millennial Kingdom has started already???
-
I just read the following statement by a Christian writer: “This “gap” between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel, if believed, has now been going on for nearly 2,000 years. Wow, that’s like taking 9 inches out of a 12-inch ruler.”
Jesus Himself confirmed that gap in Nazareth, at the beginning of His ministry, immediately following His temptation in the wilderness, not by using Daniel’s prophecy, but by using Isaiah’s.
Luke 4:16-21
Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read, the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him, and He began by saying, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”But Jesus stopped reading in the middle of the sentence, because the REST of Isaiah’s prophecy concerns the End Times, the aftermath of the Tribulation or Time of Jacob’s trouble, i.e. the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom. Here is the End Times portion:
“and the day of our God’s VENGEANCE, to comfort all who mourn, to console the mourners in Zion—to give them a crown of beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, and a garment of praise for a spirit of despair. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified. They will rebuild the ancient ruins; they will restore the places long devastated; they will renew the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations. Strangers will stand and feed your flocks, and foreigners will be your plowmen and vinedressers. But you will be called the priests of the LORD; they will speak of you as ministers of our God you will feed on the wealth of nations, and you will boast in their riches. Instead of shame, My people will have a double portion, and instead of humiliation, they will rejoice in their share; and so they will inherit a double portion in their land, and everlasting joy will be theirs.”
The angel Gabriel told Daniel that the terminus of the 69 week time-line would be “unto Messiah the Prince” after which “the Anointed One will be cut off” and “the people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.” (There was a gap of 40 years between Jesus’ crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem.) Daniel’s 70th week concerns the End Times. To quote [https://www.gotquestions.org/seventy-weeks.html] ‘It reveals some of the actions of the Antichrist, the “ruler who will come.” Verse 27 says, “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’” However, “in the middle of the ‘seven,’ . . . he will set up an abomination that causes desolation” in the temple. Jesus warned of this event in Matthew 24:15. After the Antichrist breaks the covenant with Israel, a time of “great tribulation” begins (Matthew 24:21, NKJV)…Daniel also predicts that the Antichrist will face judgment. He only rules “until the end that is decreed is poured out on him” (Daniel 9:27). God will only allow evil to go so far, and the judgment the Antichrist will face has already been planned out.’
So, if you don’t think there is a long gap between the 69th and 70th week, you need to take it up with Jesus.
-
The word gap is prejudicial. First if 70 heptads are equated with 70 years assuming no unmentioned intervals, then the interpretation of the text would mean the decree of Cyrus Isa. 44:: 28-45:13. 2 Chron 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1+4;
538 B.C. Presuming no unmentioned intervals chronologically the 70,th week would have been 468 B.C. I do not know of anyone who holds to that view. The six infinitive purpose clauses must be incorporated into the chronological understanding of the text. One the surface the language of purposes 2-4 would indicate the time of the 69th week to be Calvary 29-33AD and v.9:26b. to be 70 A.D.
2. How can you possibly interpret the rest of the passage 538 BC.-69 years no gaps to 29 – 33 AD.what mathematical base are you using because it certainly is not base 10! Calvary did not occur 470 B.C. The Roman destruction of the city did not occur 39-45 years say 431-425 B.C.?.
You are left with either a gibberish canbalistic symbolical view of the numbers or you are left with some kind of system with at least one or two unmentioned intervals of time assumed or presumed in the text.
1. Sir Robert Anderson’s view.
There are problems with this view. Where does it state that the decree to build was that of the unknown Artaxerxes of 445 B.C.? Nowhere. This is presumed upon the text. I prefer to let Scripture interpret Scripture. 2.Anderson presumed that the divisions of the 70 weeks are 2. 1-69, 70.
However the Hebrew text divides it into three. 7, 62 ,1., or
49, 434, 7.Take the math.
434
49
7
490 years 538
-490
48 BC.
is not 29 -33 AD.! His solution was one interval unmentioned between the 69th and 70th week. The math didn’t fit. He proposed the idea of a solar year being 360 days instead of 365 days. However even with this, run the math. It really doesn’t fit either under close scrutiny.
How are we left to understand the text? Inexplicable? Symbolical?
I would suggest the solution of the late Rev. Allan Alexander MacRae PH.D. a student of the later Rev. Robert Dick Wilson, PH.D.
MacRae, The Prophecies of Daniel, pp.162-173.
Evidence for 3 segments instead of 2 segments.
1. Verse 26 states ‘After the 62 sevens’ strange if only one segment were meant. It would have said: ‘After the 69 sevens,’
2. The angel could have said 9 and 60 if 69 were meant and he did not. No parallel for stating 69 as 7 and 42.
3. The punctuation of the Hebrew Bible suggests two segments instead of one.
The NIV reading of verse 25.
“From the issuing of the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, until the Anointed One, the ruler comes, there will be seven, sevens.”
Does verse 25 refer to the same Anointed One in verse 26, or not?
1. Issuing a divine prediction the word dabar decree NIV, cf.
Jer. 31;38; 32;15,37,44 runs to the coming of Cyrus 49 years 587-538 BC.
2. Possibility of Keil and Leopold 7 weeks undesignated period of time.
Second Segment. Verse 26.
Is verse 26 Messiah and 70 AD?or is it Keil and Leopold’s view of something future to us?
Keil and Leopold refuted.
1) First Segment Christ have nothing. Leaves power of Anti Christ superior to Jesus Christ.
2) Second Segment Rebuild the City= The NT church. Why change from literal to figurative midstream no clear indication?
3) Seven, sixty-two, one figurative however is there another approach fits facts better?
Possibility of intervals.
Structure of Daniel text like this:
“I lived in Washington 16 years. I was on Truman’s staff four years (1949-53). I was Attorney General eight years (1961-69) and I was Secretary of State four years(1977-1981).
The statement standing without information in the parentheticals contains no unmentioned intervals, but one familiar with American political history would understand the situation.
Rejecting Keil and Leupold, here is s reasonable solution.
Segment One:
587- 538 B.C.
Segment Two:
Time between Decree of Cyrus to Christ no precise beginning or ending. Second in mentioned interval during which destruction of Jerusalem occurs reaching to
segment three.
Segment Three
Future to us. The Activity of the Personal Antichrist.I have streamlined all the technical discussions to avoid this note being refused on the basis of technical minutiae.
For the detailed refutation of Robert Anderson see, pp. 193-202. This is in contrast to these supporters:
Culver, p. 145; Hoehner pp. 135ff. King, pp. 172-179; McClain, 70weeks pamphlet, Newell, p. 148; Shower’s, pp. 1; 23-24; Stevens, pp. 157-60, Talbot, pp. 232-33; Walvoord, p. 228.
The whole discussion must be read and digested. Fineberg’s one son wrote an article refuting MacRae in a Festschrift dedicated to his father Charles Lee Feinberg.
My opinion of Fineberg’s refutation is that it was a fair attempt of refuting the irrefutable. Feinberg’s refutation similar to E. J. Young’s in his Isaiah commentary on Isaiah 24:31-23. He stated it could not be compared with Revelation 19:11-21:8. Never gave a reason because He did not want to contradict Dr. Allan A. MacRae his old teacher in print. Feinberg was up against his dad’s old friend and didn’t want to be placed in a position of disagreement with Dr
MacRae. Arguments from silence are sometimes personal predispositions of writers who don’t have good reasons but as Napoleon puts hand in shirt and insists like an invincible conqueror “But I know better!” No further reason furnished but mere strength of personal magnetism.
Hope this helps. -
I FIND IT IRONIC THAT WE YEC CONDEMN OEC FOR IMPOSING A GAP BETWEEN THE DAYS IN GENESIS AND YET SO MANY BELIEVERS DO IT IN DANIEL 9, IF THERE IS A GAP THEN WHY TELL DANIEL THERE WAS 490 YEARS? THAT WOULD BE DISINGENUOUS! 490 YEARS IS NOT 2490 YEARS AND COUNTING, THIS VIEW DOESNT COME FROM SCRIPTURE BUT TRADITION AND A SYSTEM IMPOSED OVER THE TEXT.
-
All of popular christendom is wrong, even from the very beginning i.e. AD 29. Most populists claim Jesus began His ministry in AD 27, when scriptures say “in the fifteenth year of Tiberius”. Tiberius became Caesar in AD 14. The math doesn’t work, but not only that you change scripture when you presume you know better than the Holy Spirit.
-
I recommend researching history and prophecy for a good explanation for that gap.
-
Research Preterism
-
Everyone trying to refute you but where’s the scripture?
-
This is the interval:::: church age
“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
Daniel 9:26 NKJVNot for Himself — since He died for everyone who believes
-
The Hebrew word “weeks” is just “sevens”. This often means seven days but can most certainly mean seven years too. Also internal evidence in the passage tells us how to understand what kind of “seven” it is. It’s not reasonable to think that the temple could be commissioned one day and competed within 69 days. This is clearly meant as a prophesy of events to take place far in future from Daniel’s perspective.
There’s a good amount of evidence that Jesus’s ministry started at the beginning of the 70th “week”.
-
Johny Goodwin
The 70th week in Babylonian captivity, or the 70th week referring to tribulation?
-
How much does it matter?
-
I have no idea whats going on
-
Johny Goodwin, are you looking for an answer, honestly, or just a debate?
-
You say you want to debate, but you haven’t proven anything.
It seems as if the Preterists aren’t as knowledge as they would let on. Simply stating that Christ ministry and his death “3 1/2 years” later fulfilled Daniel 6v27, but they haven’t supplied the necessary scripture that proves the numbers given in Luke 3v1, and 3v23. They like everyone else depend on the explanation of the SDA’s, namely that Christ began His ministry in “AD 27”. 😛
NOT!
-
There is NO GAP!
But AD 27 wasn’t the start of the 70th week either. Now what? -
Whattt
-
Ok so explain what Jesus meant in matthew 24 about the abomination of desolation. You cannot account for this if last week complete
-
A 490 year prophecy that takes over 2,000 years to happen is not a 490 year prophecy. So many people have been indoctrinated and conditioned into believing Daniel’s prophecy is something it’s not. If you cannot figure it out, you don’t misapply it or create a story that God hit the pause button on His prophecy. Instead, you should study it out and figure out what actually happened during the 70th week.
-
Daniel 9:24-27 (emphasis on v 27)
From where we stand in time today, the last seven years of Daniel’s prophecy are still prophetic, still future, but it is with their conclusion that all six purposes of verse 24 will reach their fulfillment. The verse’s main points are as follows: First, the 70th seven will begin only with the signing of a seven-year covenant or treaty between Israel and a major gentile political leader. Secondly, in the middle of that period, that is, after 3 1/2 years, this gentile leader will break his treaty with Israel and cause a cessation of the sacrificial system. The implication here is that by this time a temple in Jerusalem will have been rebuilt again and the sacrificial system of Moses re-instituted, but then will be forcefully ceased. Thirdly, the result of the breaking of this covenant is that the temple will now be abominated. The ” abomination” refers to an image or an idol. As it was in the days of Antiochus Epiphanes, so it will be again in the future when a gentile ruler will abominate the temple by means of idolatry. Fourthly, the abomination is to be followed by wrath and desolation, persecution and warfare, for the remaining half of the 70th seven (the final 3 1/2 years). This is similar to the trials and tribulations the rabbis spoke of as preparation for the establishment of the messianic kingdom. These terrible days were referred to as “the footsteps of the Messiah.” But once those days have run their course, the last three things predicted in verse 24 will occur: After this period the age of righteousness will be brought in, in which the most holy place will be anointed and every vision and prophecy be fulfilled. At this point the messianic kingdom for which the prophet Daniel yearned will be set up.Obviously, the messianic kingdom requires the Messiah to RULE AS KING. This means the Messiah will come AFTER THE 70th SEVEN. Yet earlier Daniel stated that the Messiah would come and be killed after the 69th seven. This would appear to be a contradiction unless Daniel was speaking of two comings of the Messiah. The first time was to be after the 69th seven, when he would die a penal, substitutionary death for the sins of Israel and accomplish the first three purposes listed in verse 24. The second time was to be after the 70th seven (still future), when he will establish the messianic kingdom and accomplish the last three things of verse 24. There is also an important implication here that should not be missed. The Messiah would be killed after his first coming. Yet he would be alive at his second coming. The implication is that the Messiah would be resurrected from the dead after he was killed.
-
What I want to know is when is this pretender going to prove his position? :p
-
For a very thoughtful consideration of this anyone interested should read Phillip Mauro “The Seventy Weeks and the Tribulation”.
-
“First, the 70th seven will begin only with the signing of a seven-year covenant or treaty between Israel and a major gentile political leader.”
Where does it say it’s a covenant with Israel? The verse says “with many.” Where does it say it’s between Israel and a major gentile leader? There is absolutely no mention of a “major gentile leader” anywhere in the passage.
“Secondly, in the middle of that period, that is, after 3 1/2 years, this gentile leader will break his treaty with Israel and cause a cessation of the sacrificial system.”
There has never been a 7-year treaty with Israel that has been broken in 3.5 years resulting in the cessation of the sacrificial system. Israel currently doesn’t live under a sacrificial system. Who ended it?
“And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.”
Jesus ended the sacrificial system once and for all.
Also, where does it say anything about a treaty being broken? That is an assumption based upon a preconceived idea of what this passage is prophesying. There are so many things read into this passage from your viewpoint it’s hard to even follow them all.
-
Proves that there is no gap from scripture..
-
I do not understand why gravity works, but I know that it does. I don’t understand why the laws of physics work the way they do, and not some other way. But I know that they do and I trust that. Likewise, it doesn’t require for me to have God fully sorted out in my pea-brain to know that He exists, that He is simultaneously Father, Son, and Spirit, and that He has saved me from my sin through Jesus.
-
A person with a 1000 religious books is still a person with 1000 religious books. It is endless debating words, just endless. And in the end life proceeds on its own course and we are but mist.
-
According to Daniel after the 69th week, and before the 70th week, there is a break:
“Then after the sixty two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week…” (Daniel 9:26-27).
Daniel here describes an in-between time. At least, that’s how I read it. Messiah comes at the end of the 62 weeks (really, the 69th because of 7 + 62, v 25). And then, in this in-between time, Messiah is “cut off” and the people of “the prince to come” destroy the sanctuary…but how much time does that take? We don’t know. But we do know the 70th week doesn’t start until the covenant is made.
It’d be like saying, “After four weeks, I’m gonna go to Dallas for business. And then once I sign the contract, I’ll be home in a week.” How long between I arrive in Dallas and finally sign the contract? Don’t know. That’s left open.
-
Rookies! 😀
-
Why? What do you have to prove?
-
There is a big gap between 69th & 70th week coz the event at the beginning of the 70th week haven’t take place in history
-
Cut off for messiah sake. Bible explicitly doors put a gap there.
-
Correct, if you need to insert a gap then you are misunderstanding the prophecy.
-
[…] There is no gap between Daniels 69th and 70th week… […]
Comments