To all Calvanist brothers and sisters and others who believe in once saved always saved, what is your biblical intepretation of Hebrews 6:4-12? It is seems like apostacy is possible and not just a theory if you read this passage.
Discussion
28 comments
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Not 100% but i believe it is explained away in that chapter. They would of been not truly saved to begin with. A tare in the wheat so to speak
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I am not a Calvinist and I believe in Eternal Security cause that’s what the BIble said prior to the following Scripture –
John 6:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.1.) No Wise Cast Out
John 6:39 King James Version (KJV)
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.2.) I Should Lose Nothing
John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.3.)No Man able to Pluck them out of my Hand.
Simply because Eternal(Things Unseen) Salvation not according to our Works that is Completely God’s work not following Scriptures proves that it is not WORK based Salvation pay attention to this –
Eternal(Things Unseen) Salvation is:
1.) Not of Works –
Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.2.) Not by Works –
Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;3.) Not according to our Works –
2 Timothy 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,Which was given us in Christ Jesus when? Before the World Began – that is Eternal(Things) Unseen Salvation. and the following Scripture I mentioned above that Nothing will lose, nothing will cast out, and nothing will be able to pluck them out of my hand.
Now on the Other Hand – Work Based Salvation in this Things Seen(Temporal) World –
That is Faith, Baptism, Obedience, Repentance, etc etc etc so every work that can be seen on our naked eye that is Temporal(Things Seen) Salvation.
Baptism – to save us from this “UNTOWARD GENERATION”
Acts 2:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.and so on and so fort –
Mark 13:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.Endure unto the End? – was not talking about Eternal(things unseen) Salvation – it is about Work based that we need to Endure Affliction, we need to Endure Persecution while we are in these Temporal(Things Seen) World
2 Timothy 3:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.tSo prior to your Text on Hebrews 6:4-12 this is not Eternal(things seen) Salvation but this is Temporal(Things Seen) Salvation – if you notice on verse 10 –
Hebrews 6:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.To Forget YOUR WORK – Every one fall from the Lust of their Flesh because there is no Just Man on Earth that Sinneth not, King Solomon concur it on his writings –
Ecclesiastes 7:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.THat is why the Scripture always remind us to “Abstain from the Lust of THe Flesh”(1 Peter 2:11), Overcome Evil for Good(Romans 12:21), Resist the Devil(James 4:7) because we are in a Battle Brethren and it starts in OUR OWN FLESH – that is why Apostle Paul clearly says that our Flesh still serve in Law of Sin and the Evil that dwells in it.
Romans 7:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.So if they FALL prior to Hebrews 6 – that doesn’t mean that they will lost Salvation notice on our text above on John 6:37, I will no wise Cast out – no one will be cast out so what will happen to those who fall? Let the Word of God speak –
Psalm 37:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.For the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
God bless.
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I believe that salvation is only made once. And if you do truthfully and by heart, then you are truly saved and nothing can separate us from God. All sins are forgiven. Though all this are true, we cant ignore the fact that we are still sinners and still commit sin. But at least not intentionally.
I believe in this, “once saved, always saved’ if you truly, faithfully accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour.My opinion is, does God let his children be lost? I mean, we were lost once but He solved that already. Will He allow it again and again?
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There are seeds that fell on rocky ground, no roots. Something so basic as that parable should settle this issue once and for all
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A Calvinist would say that you were never saved if you fall away because if you were saved, God would keep you.
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Not truly saved
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That is hypothetical question
It is only telling what happen buT not going to happen
You need to understand that biblical gramar is different from modern grammar
Example the word “if” there are 4 different meaning depend on the context -
Let the Holy Spirit lead you to the truth of his word. Whatever he convicts you of, live by that and make sure you respect others convictions. We must all answer to the same Lord. Blessings
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Calvinists seem to fit into one of two categories.
1. You don’t have free will and God has his arbitrarily picked “elect” and pretty much said “get stuffed” to everyone else, as Jesus’ blood was only enough to save said “elect”.2. Once you’re saved you no longer have the free will to reject salvation.
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Revelations 3:5 is clear… But they will twist the words and sure of that.
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I’m not really a calvinist but I believe in eternal security because salvation is from God, not from us
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John 10 convinced me. The parable of the sower, Hebrews, Matthew 7:21 and John are in harmony. We must decide if our salvation is at least in part in our control or is through Christ alone.
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Calvinism is heresy. Either the whole Bible is true or none of it is and you can’t just pick and choose a select few verses to live by and ignore a bunch of others. We have freewill and people can and do backslide after becoming saved. The calvinist teaches that we have no freewill and can’t choose to sin or reject God. Or we can sin all we want without repentance and God will no care as we’re saved regardless
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If this means a saved person can fall away and lose salvation, it also means God will not forgive that person ever again. Verse 4 says it is impossible to restore them. I believe God will always forgive us when we repent and ask for forgiveness
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Remember context. As you read the first five chapters of Hebrews you should recognize that the letter is written to three groups of Jews, one has received Christ, the other two groups have been exposed to Christianity but have not accepted. The writer of Hebrews is telling these unsaved Jews not to reject Christ in favor of their Hebrew history.
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Hebrews 6:4-12 is about someone who disbelieves that Christ’s death is effective to save and a rejection of Him as Master and Savior. Such a person is definitionally not a Christian in the first place. The other side of this is the thought that committing sin against the Mosaic Law is the meaning of “Falling Away”, but we are not under the Mosaic Law. We are, however, under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Study about the changed priesthood of Christ, how a change of priesthood necessitates a change of Law and how the written ordinances have been blotted out. It’s not spiritually possible for a person who verbally confesses Master Jesus AND believes that His death is effective for salvation according to the Scriptures, and the other tenants of Paul’s gospel found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, to ever sin against God so much that they are not forgiven. Hebrews 6:11 illuminates what is being talked about in this passage – “And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end”. If we lose hope that Christ’s death is effective to save us, then that is falling away – no born again person can do that, because,even under much doubt and wickedness, a core – God’s seed – remains inside us and we cannot doubt that His death is effective to save us. Jesus Christ died for our sins. :^D The diligence that’s being encouraged is to “full” assurance of the hope. Verse 12 – “That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises”. If we are slothful, then we won’t have the “full” assurance of our hope in His salvation of us. This is fearful, and we don’t want any part of the body under such fear. But if even a slightest bit of hopeful assurance remains, then that’s the basis for our confession of Master Jesus, which is salvation (Romans 10:9a & 10:10b). This is salvation doctrine – please become experts on it, dear Church: Romans 10:9a & 10:10b, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in Romans 10:9b & 10:10a (righteousness due to believing the Resurrection). We are under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. When we know we have life, then we do what is right and we automatically tend toward doing God’s Law, because the Spirit Who gives us life is righteous, and we look at righteousness as we look toward Christ to follow Him as our Master.
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Oh boy, context, oh boy, another dispensation, oh boy this, and oh boy that. How about just realizing the Bible is not one book with one author, but many books with many authors with differing schools of thought.
Sorry to break this news to you, but face up to the reality that the Bible contradicts itself.
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The book and verses you refer to simply say that you cannot be saved more than one time. JESUS will be sacrificed and subjected to public humiliation only one time. Those who believe in multiple sacrifices put JESUS on equal status with bulls ,sheep and goats.
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I think in some ways the doctrine of one saved always saved is contradicted by both that passage in Hebrews as well as the pattern in Hebrews 11. The pattern in Hebrews chapter 11 is faith, obedience and then blessing. There is a case to be made also that faith and works go together in the ongoing justification or sanctification of the believer. Look at James chapter 2 verse 24. Now as for getting saved in the first place then of course we still apply Ephesians chapter 2 verses eight and nine. There is a balance between legalism and licentiousness.
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Start at the begining of Hebrews and work through it.
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I would point out Hebrews 6:4 says those who have “tasted”. This would NOT be fully saved, but just a sampling what it would be like to be saved. As 1 John 2:19 points out those that leave the faith were never really saved to begin with.
Also I am not fully Calvinist in my application of scripture through doctrine. But I do agree with perseverance of the saints
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Read the earlier verses you omitted, it’s talking about the Jews of the day who were alive to see and know Jesus ‘miracles’ so Gods power. Read the entire Hebrews 6 to see the accurate message.
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Read carefully Ephesians 1 ,Romans 8, John 6b and Philippians 1:5.
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Not “once saved always saved” this is a misinterpretation a misnomer. Actually Biblically “the perseverance of the saints” In other words from Biblical perspective God will be faithful to complete in us what He has begun.
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Psalm 37:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. -
The area that most Christians label most as Calvinist/Licentiousness is because of their “works salvation” position.
If the Objective theological truths is wrong – surely the Subjective will be wrong.
In brief:
1. By Grace through the Blood of Jesus – the condition to EARN Eternal life for the entire humanity are met.
2. However, through the Holy Spirit – we met the condition to RECEIVE Christ and the gift of Eternal life.
3. The condition to RECEIVE is Faith that Works. -
When you Change the meaning of the verse to suit your doctrine, it is called twisting the scriptures.
Wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit
James 1:5-6 ESV
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.Those wisdom coming from above:
James 3:17 ESV
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.
If you want to know the truth: LISTEN TO ALL THE WORLD PF GOD (not cherry picked verses only that suits your doctrine)
Proverbs 2:6 ESV
For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;Be careful of mere human explanation and commentaries:
Colossians 2:8 ESV
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.But what shall we do to be wise?
1 Corinthians 3:18 ESV
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.Too much analysis paralysis and to those who seek and ARE LAZY to read the Bible:
2 Timothy 4:3-4 ESV / 7 helpful votes
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
So how can we avoid being laid astray???
1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.Titus 1:9 ESV
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.Acts 17:11 ESV
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.God bless.
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