//Within a few decades of his lifetime, Jesus was mentioned by Jewish and Roman historians in passages that corroborate portions of the New Testament that describe the life and death of Jesus.//
Some argue that Jesus wasn’t an actual man, but within a few decades of his lifetime, he was mentioned by Jewish and Roman historians.
Typical Bart…
What criteria do you use to determine reliable historicity?
We have more proof Jesus existed than we do Plato but nobody questions him?
There is No contemporary evidence that jesus of Nazareth existed. No eye witness accounts and no reliable evidence in the entire 1st century?
His meracles!
Thank you Ariel
He is also mentioned in Marcus Aurelius’ meditations.
Many Historians have confirmed that Jesus was a human that lived on the earth and have also supported the stories in the Bible, both Jewish, Roman, and gentile people that did not believe he was the Messiah
Do you want to make me cry with such pictures?
Wish we had some heavy hitters on this group. Maybe approaching bonified accedemics would be a problem solver?
Jimmy C Williams
Most of the responses are earnest, but without having an authority in the matter, the group remains pretty baseless.
Opinions and interpretations only go so far. If this group wants truth, then maybe the admin should get some actual scholars involved, otherwise the group is pretty useless.
When I read Shakespeare or any other writings I appreciate the intellect of the authors but when I read the new testament especially the teachings of Christ and the epistles, I feel and receive a quickening of life. That’s how I know that Jesus is real
The holy spirit
There was a paradigm shift in culture… suddenly, a mass population of Jews (and others) who believed in their own laws and customs, changed so vastly that it exists to this day.
Well, up until 1961, there was precious little to ‘prove’ that Pilate existed…and he was the prefect of Rome. What there was were a few coins ‘purportedly’ minted under his authority, and a couple of documentary references. Only in 1961 was a dedication stone inscribed from him to Tiberius found. If that’s all we have to prove that a prefect of Rome existed, what should we expect for a carpenter from a backwater town?
If you claim the proof first, it is not faith
It’s for the very reason that Jesus said to Thomas ye have seen me and believe then He says “Blessed are they that have not seen and yet they believe”
Jef Son, YOU DID THIS RIGHT, BRO!
This case has been thoroughly investigated in recent times. Search “The Case for Christ”. A former Atheist, Lee Trobel, seeking to prove/disprove Christ’s existence. Lee came to accept Christ as a result of his journey.
There is more evidence, but it’s unnecessary since the Bible is proven to be historically reliable.
As for prof. Erman, he is an avowed athiest/ agnostic and his writings are disbelieving of any early writings being accurate or without suspicion. He claimed to be a liberal Christian early until he came out as an atheist when he couldn’t come up with a good reason why God allows evil in the world.
I love it when someone says that Jesus didn’t exist because they think they have a got yah moment. The Bible isn’t a single document but a collection of documents put together in one volume. So in itself is multiple witnesses of Jesus existence. It’s like a one volume collection of someone’s life work which includes friends letters than discounting his existence just because they are collected in one place.
As for other sources, Jesus was being written about by early Christianity from the start and mentioned by pagan writers.
His existence is without question. The real question is H- who he said H- was.
Great post, I wish I could say I found the subject of his existence anything but the bottom of the intellectual barrel. Not at all a reflection on you my good sir. Thanks for posting.
Josephus, Tacitus, pliney. Further, and this is such a foolish new age-subjectivism-in academia- argument to say he never existed. We have no problem trusting other ancient sources a lot further from the source and with a lot fewer pieces of primary source documentation in existence today. Library‘s of work have consistently been written about this man and his movement for 2000 years. Note Norman Geislers book on christian apologetics is arranged in such a way that i realized the essentials of the entire subject in some instances are different forms of thought attempting to unseat unsuccessfully a 2,000 year old belief system. Most of the forms of thought have all only taken place in the last couple hundred years at that. And died as long as the next system of thought came.
I own the books/volumes of the pre-and post-Nicene fathers among many other ancient works. Just within the first 200 years alone there were nonstop discussions in writing about him and what he thought and what he meant. I often tell people who ask – The question has never been “did he really exist” until modern global secularism, moral relativism, And naturalism rooted themselves in our schools – but for the first several hundred years the confusion was around understanding the balance of his humanity and divinity. All of the early heresies and different sects that became different denominations all just had different ideas about the combination (hypostasis) of factors settled in the person of Jesus Christ.
The argument of “this person never existed.” I mean come on. It’s so stupid given the breadth of objective primary sources. Do we approach any other figure of antiquity in such a way? We don’t. (Please don’t mistake my tone as frustrated or adversarial – I come across in the way I write that way sometimes.)
Josephus
Me!
Thallus, Josephus, Tacitus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Phlegan to name a few from the first century. Some were contentious towards this sect, but helped provide veracity to Jesus. Then we have the chain of custody of scriptures from the original autographs up through the first council of Nicaea in AD 325. Textual criticism to show the accuracy of the copies of the original Greek autographs. I could go on and on but still there are those skeptics who are so biased that they will not consider the truthfulness of the evidence.
I always find it funny when people try to argue that Jesus didn’t exist. If you have done any level of scholarship on Christianity and taken classes on the person of Jesus, you’ll know that the debate isn’t whether or not He existed, but whether or not He was God. That’s been the case for decades now. If someone told a New Testament scholar that Jesus didn’t exist they’d be laughed out of the room. So I find it bizarre that so many doubt that Jesus existed.
The Jewish historian Josephus (whether he be a man or not . . . ) and the letter that Pontius Pilate wrote to the Roman empower stating Jesus Christ was crucified
Militant Atheist, Richard Dawkins ADMITS on camera, that Jesus DID exist! https://youtu.be/Ant5HS01tBQ
If Jesus hadn’t existed, how could you possibly explain the existence of the Christian church?
Multiple extant historical and secular materials. Beyond that, however, it’s important to remember that the Bible is not one source; it is a compilation of numerous sources from numerous contributors that do not deviate from the inherent theme of salvation throughout God’s word. Manuscript analysis alone is substantial in ascertaining the historicity of Jesus Christ, more than any other person of the ancients, and at the tune of 12,000+ manuscripts that attest to the same evidence, from different perspectives (of the authors). Nobody is better documented from the ancients than Jesus Christ.
What’s fascinating is that the early autographs were most likely not bound with many of the other books of the New Testament at all – as we know the NT today. Assuming these autographs were either on individual papyrus scrolls or bound papyrus codices/books…I’d bet scrolls until somewhat later on (around 100 A.D.) the logistics of evangelizing and having to carry around the Word of God helped the new Christians realize the need to adapt and for portability and the importance of the codex (book) format. The early Christians were not static and with long-standing libraries in one place….they evangelized and moved frequently.
But even when the codex became used, it was likely papyrus folios, meaning that not many pages could be bound together – logistically too thick and bulky…so the early books of the NT were likely carried around (1st century to 4th century) as independent books or with just a few of the NT books bound together. (Also, no doubt, scrolls would deteriorate more rapidly as they were not protected by a codex front and back cover).
When manuscripts started being written on vellum or parchment, that is when I understand that the animal skins could be scraped really thin (but were way more durable than papyrus)…this allowed the entire Bible to be bound in one book. A revolution in book binding and in Christian apologetics that I think many stop to think about. Codex Siniaticus (“aleph” I think it is called) shows the beauty of the new codex technology in the mid 4th century.
If these premises are true, then the fact that the entire 27 books in the NT do not deviate from the central message of Jesus Christ is astounding and begs a profound explanation. How could that possibly be? The other books were spread out, carried all over, re-copied, etc…Certainly not a hoax or a conspiracy- all 27 books say different but completely consistent things…this is the light bulb that goes off to stop you in your tracks, realizing the authors of the NT were reliable and trustworthy and, above all, they were inspired.
Quite a bit ?
Religion and sacred documents are not regarded as secular history but as Salvation history. That’s why its not in the realm of the secular news with a secular (world) impact. Different paradigms needs different parameters. In the case of the historical Jesus his impact on the secular state of ancient Israel is blatantly ignored and written off as religion. Here is a case (hypothesis) to be made ….
I can’t believe I am the only Christian on this planet who truly understands Hebrews 10:25. Cyberspace is not church fellowship. Both Stanford and USC believe the coronavirus is NOT more dangerous than the common flu. Shutting the church down is not based on science, but is based on the utter hatred towards God.
The calendar….
May 2020, A.D. (death of Christ)
Your not
.
How many other proofs are needed?
Christianity is a faith. Faith is a requirement. (Hebrews: >>without faith it is impossible to please God.<<) If we had all seen Jesus, we would have knowledge, not faith.
[…] Some argue that Jesus wasn’t an actual man, but within… […]
All #ourCOG News 5.0
Comments