If there is no God, then there is no transcendent objective morality. If there’s no transcendent objective morality, then rape, for example, is NOT wrong… You just don’t prefer it and rapists do. Which human wins?
Discussion
43 comments
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You don’t need objective morality to know that rape is bad. You don’t even need God to tell you that, although I cannot find any evidence to prove that he is even real.
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There IS objective morality. It is how we survive.
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ill take the “red” pill?
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Just calls bumping into each other. If there is no objective truth then if someone robs you ,hey, he thought it was the right thing to do. His cells bumped into your cells. Might means right….
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The absence of the existance of God is nihilism
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Christians have no right to speak on morality when the god they worship kills humans by the millions. We were here 97,000 years before your god, and im sue we’ll be here when this bronze age mythology is finally abolished from the minds of society. Obviously, like other animals that made it through the evolutionary process, we have morality that is built on biological functions and environment circumstances. Altruism is built into us through having a complex brain. That’s my opinion, which I like much better over the Christian version of we’re all evil sinners and the only way you can improve your position is by worshipping a capricious diety, whom you have no physical evidence exists.
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Evolutionary thought says the individual creature who is most successful at spreading his “ seed” is the winner. The moral good as far as godless nature is concerned is passing on your genetics—method be damned.
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Human morals are something we’ve developed over time and are only relative to human societies. Is rape or murder “wrong” in the animal kingdom? Not to humans but to animals maybe it so.
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Do animals rape each other and kill their own species?
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Word… Moses brought two separate sets of tablets down from Mt Sinai. The exposed set was broken to pieces. The second was placed in an arc. There was the presence of our Lord.
We who have the Law written on our hearts will in a short time “sin no more”. Christ in us, my friends… we, if we remain in Him, will be brought to perfection. His work in us while we exist in this world.
Let the despisers find fault with my statement. ?
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Yes, great point. Morality ethics come from some where, and it certainly doesn’t come from us. Our conscious, our sense of right & wrong is proof of God’s existence.
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The same view from Prof. Ravi Zacharias on morality and “presupposed other world views.”
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Self consciousness is exhibit of the existence of a supreme being (God).
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Yep exactly. It’s all up for grabs. Without God each person has their OWN opinion of what’s right and wrong.
More evidence for God, without Him we spiral into absurdity upon absurdity.
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Never! Our ancestors needed to be moral so their tribes and villages could flourish. Those who weren’t moral endangered the whole community so they were banished or killed.
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Exactly! Watch Frank Turek of Cross Examined presents this discussion awesomely in his book, “I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist ” and. “Stealing From God” (not about tithing LOL)
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I don’t have time to read over 100 comments. This hinges on objective/subjective issue of where morality comes from. God is the only One that has an objective view. We are so far down the road/path that social morality is ruling. And the True Morality of God is being pushed to the side/down. L&P
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Its consequences for sin. God will forgive you
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As a Christian who KNOWS God is real and Jesus died on the cross for us, I have always found this argument incredibly flawed. So you are saying without God there is no objective morality standard, but there is no such thing. MOST people feel bad and upset when they see others in pain and suffering, and even more so when they are directly causing the pain and suffering, this probably has more to do with how humans have collectively figured out a society in harmony is the best case scenario for human survival and to flourish. The examples that were mentioned in the thread indicates there are indeed people who think it’s ok to rape, you’ve also heard ancient villages that hunt humans from rivaling villages, which was a thing considered to be honorable —- So what now then? If you’re arguing without God there is no objective moral standard, then does this mean God doesn’t exist? I know God does, and He loves us, hence I reject this theory.
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Amily Catherine.
Collectively there were societies that had no problem with cannibalism, paedophilia, child sacrifice, sending people to the gas chamber.
Who are we to say they were wrong. Right. Since morals are achieved by the consensus of a society.
So knowing that societies have got it wrong before. How can you trust societies to get it right without an absolute moral code or God. -
No, Marvin, there weren’t. All societies have protected their own and only kill to protect the community. That’s also why the law recognized a difference between killing and murder.
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That is right, under a belief in atheism, nothing is right or wrong because there is no basis to determine morality.
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My rules and desires trump yours.
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Nope. The needs of the community are more important than the individual.
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I just did that, John.
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The rapist will win because there is no reason why he would be wrong
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Really David? WOW.
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Nevermind, David. You’re being sarcastic…
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But aren’t there some places in the Old Testament where rape is commanded?
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In your scenario, no one wins no one loses. There is no good or evil except what by chance we end up believing. There is no real meaning or purpose in everything that is or happens.
I personally have never been able to accept such a view of things. God doesn’t let any of us get away with such beliefs. -
Dostoevsky-“If there is no God then all things are permissible”
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People who despise Christianity certainly have that right. But when they use it to disagree with the OP they make a fatal mistake. Christians have transcendence and realize that only transcendence of some type could create a moral order. Now the unbeliever May believe the Christians morality is flawed or hypocritical and that’s a valid argument but the critic has no transcendent launching pad so is speaking only from a place with no moorings. For what is morality with out a Moral agent. One mans evil is murdering a man while another mans evil such as the cannibal is not clearing his plate.
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Neither can win! Since no absolute standard.
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Nkn if women learn self defence and to put traps in the vagina. Or even catch something from a rapist. To kill others with. Couse i can guarantee when people are true with themself if their where no rulls or consequence. Then the number of both male and femail rapists would be much much larger than it is.
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the leader
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So how long have you had this desire to rape?
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Who are you talking to Alberto?
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The OP. You are atheist and it sounds like you’re making an argument to justify rape.
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Alberto F., I’m the OP and I’m a Christian saying that if there’s no God, then there’s only human subjective morality which, based on the definition of “subjective” can only be founded in feelings and emotions which, we both know change like the weather!
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Sorry. I probably confused your name with somebody else that looks similar in name.
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I think the keyword here is Transcendent-Objective meaning, as I understand it, that single strand of DNA in the sperm that made it into the egg at conception and replicated 50 times with specific instructions for Human creation & development that includes producing more cells in the body then there are stars and planets in our galaxy and each cell doing 6 trillion things per second like working to form and sustain a brain with specific set of instruction to other organs in the body to function. Including now scientifically proven that certain memories pass down from generations. So, it stands to reason that yes indeed, morality is transendent and also objective. OBJECTIVE BECAUSE no one is born hating his neighbor. No one is born with evil intent to harm others. These things are learned in the world around us. Interestingly enough, what children do have is absolute trust in the source of all things. They don’t worry from one moment into the next. Too bad they are being born into a world were adults think its ok to murder and abuse them. Thus proving that point.
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This is an old misconception. There is no need for, or any way for, “Transcendent objective morality” to exist. It is an impossibility. Not only that, but the Bible does not contain any such thing, as it does not even condemn rape or child abuse at all, ever.
What we have, as humans, is subjective morals which actually work. They change and evolve as we need. We change our Laws and improve our Society.
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