Can someone help us how this works together: Prayer and the Sovereignty of God?
Discussion
46 comments
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You pray and sometimes it is answered and sometimes not.
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We should be praying for wisdom , discernment , mercy , be thankful for the free gift and mercy , be content . God is sovereign and He wants us to live Him by choice , so he allows us to do so
If we ask for things of the flesh it won’t be answered .
James 4:2-4
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Prayer is like preaching in that it is a human act also. It is a human act that God has ordained and which he delights in because it reflects the dependence of his creatures upon him. He has promised to respond to prayer, and his response is just as contingent upon our prayer as our prayer is in accordance with his will. “And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us” (1 John 5:14). When we don’t know how to pray according to God’s will but desire it earnestly, “the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God” (Romans 8:27).
-John Piper
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Read Abrahams’s prayer for Sodom. Abraham bargained a few times and God accepted. So in some cases, the answer to our prayer is yes. But in another cases is a no.
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Prayer is not a means to get what we want from God, rather it is a means
for us ro receive what God wants us to have.
Prayer must be viewed under Gods sovereignty. -
Prayer is our response to God’s sovereignty.
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Prayer is more about God changing you and having a dialogue with him.
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Amazing mystery of man’s intent occasionally influencing God’s will but mostly God’s will influencing man’s.
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God doesn’t care about your prayer unless you do first – Maltie Babcock
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Prayer does not effect the immutable all knowing God who’s primary desire is to do all that brings Him pleasure.
Therefore, prayer builds up the faith of those who entrust themselves and their concerns into the hands of their faithful creator. -
Praying is for our benefit
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I associate it like this. Pray in accordance to God’s sovereign will. Christ did this in garden. “Not my will be your will be done” although at times we may not fully know what sovereign will is. Here is my take. There are many places where we know what his “commanded” will is. Such as when the scriptures say, “this is the will of God, your sanctification.” Or it is his will that we all be thankful in all things. Etc. Obey God’s commanded will, trust and pray in accordance to his soveriegn will, and he will direct you in his personal will for your life. Although we serve an all-knowing, sovereign God, we should never have the mindset I wont pray because God already knows my prayer, or I won’t pray because God is soveriegn and what happens is what happens. No, we pray simply because we are commanded, and that it is our way of personal building of the relationship between God and man. ? Hope this helps someone and was easy to understand
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thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven
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our prayer is that the will of God be done and this is the motivation of the sprit
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When my daughter was like 3, I would always ask her, “How come Daddy loves her too much?” And she would always say what I wanted her to say. “Too cute too smart.”
Even though I knew exactly what she was going to say, I just loved hearing her say that.
With our Heavenly Father, I think it’s the same way. Although He knows exactly what we are going to pray for, He wants us to pray. To have a close Father son/daughter relationship. He wants us to realize the power of having a relationship with Him. -
God never does anything that is outside of His will !
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when a righteous man, praying according to God’s Will (meaning God centered, not contrary to His Word) his prayer can be used to activate the already preordained will of God. Prayer mans priveledged opportunity to participate in the outworking of the plan of God.
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I have formulated my personal attempt to answer that in my head but as of the moment, I can’t express it clearly in the English language.. ??
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I’m currently reading a book on prayer by Charles Spurgeon its about 2 inches thick. I’m halfway through and he is still going over that question. 🙂 Needless to say as we become more like Jesus, the things we want that are motivated by love and grace fall into God’s Sovereignty. His wisdom in how and when the answers come, we must trust in without murmuring and complaining if we trust Him.
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Well Jesus prayed and yet He knew what had to take place….
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The first thing that you need to understand about prayer is that you don’t pray to get God to give you stuff or to do YOUR will.
The purpose of prayer is to ask God to help you through fulfilling HIS will.
Prayer has no impact on His Sovereignty, only on how he uses us to accomplish His will
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It is all about relationships. Put yourself in the hands of God and He himself will take care of you. The rest is the rest.
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I don’t say this towards anyone; but consider the notion.
We have faith in the flesh standing before us to answer a question. And we have faith in the flesh hundreds of miles away to answer through text/phone/Facebook.But we lack faith in Asking God directly; else we wouldn’t waste time selfishly seeking quicker answers through flesh, answers filtered through flesh and communication of info is never ?.
The answer to your question is direct from God. For him to in a split second reveal what we cannot speak in days.
His sovereignty depends on the relationship! His sovereignty does not quaver-it is “How much” of it we can see.
Tell him you love his glory, grace, and delight in it…and ask him to be able to see it more clearly.
But he reads your desires/heart so don’t say it like he needs to do more! Say it in faith that he is ALL and you wish to remove the boundaries between you and He.
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There is a misconception that God is like a genie and prayer is like our three wishes. This is false.
Prayer is our communication with our Lord. What a blessing and how cool is it that we, the creation, have a direct communication line to the creator of the universe!
Now God does love us.
There are two parents and they like to meal plan. So they buy all the food at once and have a plan. Taco Tuesday’s and pizza Thursday’s. They love their kids. But on Tuesday the kids really want pizza and ask their parents for pizza. So the parents who love their kids agree. But on Wednesday the kids want candy for dinner. There is no candy in the house and the parents know candy is an unhealthy dinner, even if their kids don’t know this yet. So when the kids ask for candy for dinner the parents say no, and the kids get chicken and vegetables (not what they wanted but what they need to grow up strong). Then on Thursday the kids ask for pizza. The parents want to agree but (but they don’t have pizza and it breaks their heart, but tacos is the kids second favorite food), the will of the parents is to use all the food they bought. So they have tacos.
If you see in this example the will of the Lord, will be done. He has a plan. But because he loves us, he will allow us to ask for small variances that don’t really affect the plan but make us happy, because he loves us. Sometimes he says no, because he knows better and he loves us. Hopefully this helps you to make sense of your question.
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“Nevertheless, not my will, but Yours be done.”
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Dr. Daniel Henderson published Transformational Prayer that explains how to pray God’s Word using the Lord’s Prayer as a template. Prayer is about seeking God’s face (presence) not His hand (getting stuff).
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Prayer should always be approaching the sovereignty of God.. God’s infallible nature, His Grace and Truth, His Justice and mercy.. and on and on
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This is a good question. If I may add a follow up Q on this: How do you guys relate this with Mark 11;23-24. Some use this verse to backup their “name it, claim it” belief.
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We are commanded to pray even though God already knows what we need. Matthew 7:7(prayer). Matthew 6:32(God’s sovereignty.
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This is more about you becoming spiritually mature than it is about God giving you what you want.
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I am new here and seems like a lot of Calvinist in this group. Which is fine but like driving a car with only a brake and not an accelerator as well. Just like Jesus was 100% man and God. So is our life as a Christian, 100% free will and while 100% God retains His sovereignty. It is a classic antinomy.
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Prayer is always meant to bring you into alignment with God’s will, never to bend His will toward what you want. Jesus gave us the pattern for prayer.
Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Start your prayers with worship!They Kingdom come, Thy will be done. On Earth, as it is in Heaven.
Affirm that you are committed to bringing God’s Kingdom down and doing HIS will on Earth, as they do in Heaven.Give us this day our daily bread.
Lay all your needs before Him trusting Him to give you everything you need to face whatever comes to you today.Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Remember that you are completely forgiven, by grace, and because you are, you can offer complete forgiveness to those who have harmed you.Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.
Trust the shepherd of your soul to keep you safe as you meet the challenges laid out before you today.When you pray in this way, you are praying n accordance with God’s will and you are preparing your own hear to hear His answer.
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Man’s free will is the only thing that explains it.
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From a Molinist perspective, God already knew what you would pray for at any circumstances you’d find yourself in, so it’s not that it’s possible to change God’s mind by praying but it’s that God had already factored in your prayers prior to actualizing this world through His foreknowledge (or middle knowledge, as we Molinists calls it)
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It’s all about Faith.
An illustration would be like of a Father and son (small child)
The son has faith in His Father that he can do anything and can give anything. And the father knows what’s best for His son and he knows his needs.
Now if the son ask for a Ferrari car to His father, will the father grant his wish? Of course not because the father knows that he doesn’t need it now.The point is, We can ask anything to our God but God knows what we need and What’s best for us.
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Isaiah 1:8
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gods permissible will
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Question: “How can I be sure I am praying according to the will of God?”
Man’s highest aim should be to bring glory to God (1 Corinthians 10:31), and this includes praying according to His will. First, we must ask for wisdom. “If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him” (James 1:5). In asking for wisdom, we must also trust that God is gracious and willing to answer our prayers: “But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt” (James 1:6; see also Mark 11:24). So, praying according to the will of God includes asking for wisdom (to know the will of God) and asking in faith (to trust the will of God).
Here are seven biblical instructions that will guide the believer in praying according to God’s will:
1) Pray for the things for which the Bible commands prayer. We are told to pray for our enemies (Matthew 5:44); for God to send missionaries (Luke 10:2); that we do not enter temptation (Matthew 26:41); for ministers of the Word (Colossians 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 3:1); for government authorities (1 Timothy 2:1-3); for relief from affliction (James 5:13); and for the healing of fellow believers (James 5:16). Where God commands prayer, we can pray with confidence that we are praying according to His will.
2) Follow the example of godly characters in Scripture. Paul prayed for the salvation of Israel (Romans 10:1). David prayed for mercy and forgiveness when he sinned (Psalm 51:1-2). The early church prayed for boldness to witness (Acts 4:29). These prayers were according to the will of God, and similar prayers today can be as well. As with Paul and the early church, we should always be praying for the salvation of others. For ourselves, we should pray as David prayed, always aware of our sin and bringing it before God before it hinders our relationship with Him and thwarts our prayers.
3) Pray with the right motivation. Selfish motives will not be blessed by God. “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures” (James 4:3). We should also pray, not so our lofty words can be heard and we may be seen by others as “spiritual,” but mostly in private and in secret, so that our heavenly Father will hear in private and reward us openly (Matthew 6:5-6).
4) Pray with a spirit of forgiveness toward others (Mark 11:25). A spirit of bitterness, anger, revenge or hatred toward others will prevent our hearts from praying in total submission to God. Just as we are told not to give offerings to God while there is conflict between ourselves and another Christian (Matthew 5:23-24), in the same way God does not want the offering of our prayers until we have reconciled with our brothers and sisters in Christ.
5) Pray with thanksgiving (Colossians 4:2; Philippians 4:6-7). We can always find something to be thankful for, no matter how burdened we are by our wants or needs. The greatest sufferer that lives in this world of redeeming love, and who has the offer of heaven before him, has reason to be grateful to God.
6) Pray with persistence (Luke 18:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:17). We should persevere in prayer and not quit or be dejected because we have not received an immediate answer. Part of praying in God’s will is believing that, whether His answer is “yes,” “no,” or “wait,” we accept His judgment, submit to His will, and continue to pray.
7) Rely on the Spirit of God in prayer. This is a wonderful truth: “We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will” (Romans 8:26-27). We have the Spirit’s help in praying. At the times of our deepest depression or sorrow, those times when we feel that we “just cannot pray,” we have the comfort of knowing that the Holy Spirit is actually praying for us! What an amazing God we have!
What assurance we have when we seek to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh! Then we can have confidence that the Holy Spirit will accomplish His work in presenting our prayers to the Father according to His perfect will and timing, and we can rest in the knowledge that He is working all things together for our good (Romans 8:28).
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To help you pray and remember main areas we are encouraged to pray about, you can use the acronym ACTS:
A-acknowledgement of God sovereignty
C- confess your sins (1John 1:9)
T- thanksgiving and gratitude to God
S- supplication/petitioning and asking for His will, His mercy and provision(matt7:7) -
Unfortunately, many in Christianity today are confused relevant to how a Sovereign and Immutable God can be responsive to our prayers. If God is immutable, what relevance is there in prayer seeing that all things are fixed and our petitions of our Lord would seemingly be impotent?
Consider this…
God is sovereign over Creation, Time and Eternity, and God’s Plan for Time is immutable but the process by which that Plan comes to fruition is fluid; in other words, God’s Plan for dealing with sin, Lucifer, is fixed…what He has promised in the Scriptures will come to pass but God has so decreed that you and I possess “free will” in order that our relationship with Him can manifest in purity and honesty with authenticity.
God, in His omnipotence, allows His created beings, both angelic and human, to choose their affections and destiny in life and God works through and around our personal choices in order to accomplish His perfect will and Plan. God calls each of us to take an active part in defeating the works of Satan and coming along side Him as Father and work for the Kingdom and for our status in Eternity. This is accomplished by seeking and doing the will of God through prayer and obedience.
God only entertains the payers of those who love Him and diligently seek Him and His will for their lives (John 9:31). If you have established a relationship with God the Father by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and you’ve received the indwelling Holy Spirit as the Seal of that relationship, your prayers are heard by our Sovereign God and they will be acted upon because you have chosen to honor our Lord by faith in the Son.
We are free to choose servitude to God the Father through the Son and by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit – or – we can reject God and serve His nemesis, Satan…the choice is ours yet God’s remains sovereign over both Time and Eternity. Hope this helps?
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Prayer is a command from God. It is our responsibility. You pray for God’s revealed will. But we do ot know what is God’s decretive oe secret will. So we also pray. Lwt thy will be done. Prayer is God’s appointed mean to bless other. Prayer changes things that are after the will of God and not those things that are not according to his will. But prayer cannot change God. God in his sovereign will, do whatever he thinks is right and good even you think its not right and good.
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I recently came across an explanation of the need for prayer.. (I hope I am quoting right):
– It is an act of HUMILITY. You acknowledge your need of God.
– It demonstrates your DEPENDENCY on God. -
Listen to Dr. David Jeremiah’s Turning Point message for today because he discusses this very topic.
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God can only move and work on behalf of those who pray to Him.
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Prayer is not a means to get what we want from God, rather it is a means for us to receive what God
wants us to have.
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