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Tithing is not a NT Church principle. Prove me wrong
Discussion
115 comments
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Specific Tithing…no. Supporting the church Yes
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The 10% rule was not a new testament thing, but it seems clear that some kind of generosity marks believers.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2 Corinthians 9:7 -
Can’t argue against that
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yes. Giving generously is. 10% is a good guiding principle not a rule or law.
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Start at 10% and go higher.
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Jesus loves a cheerful giver.
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Luke 11:42 But woe to you Pharisees! You give a tenth of mint, rue, and every kind of herb, and you bypass justice and love for God. These things you should have done without neglecting the others.
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If you tally it up Jews gave round about 40%. Roughly what our government steals from us in various taxes.
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The OT tither was 23-1/3%. NT, we give so the Gospel. can be preached and mission works. It is a fact, you can not outgive God.
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2 corinthians 9:7 what’s in your heart?
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Don’t use that as an excuse for not giving, church buildings are not maintenance free, plus, we cannot out give God, and everything we have is his, so let’s not be cheap with The Lord.
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You are wrong.
Matthew 23:23 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
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That law was never done away with… it was probably not addressed because they were laying all the gifts at the apostles feet
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Luke 6:38 giving is always taught by the Lord!
Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”Read full chapter!!!
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True, but imagine if Christians actually gave at least 10% …
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“Render to Caesar what is caesars. Render to God what is Gods.”
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Yes it is a nt. principle we are to support the things of god that means the body of Christ and including pastor
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People with your mindset can’t be convinced otherwise…you’ve made up your mind already. Any number of scriptures would still be a waste of time. Good day
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I can’t…
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Have you not read book of acts
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Agree.
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A point you all are missing:
Jesus and his disciples, Paul and those that were teachers in the later part of the NT – they went out to the people… the people did not congregate to them in large buildings. The only buildings they speak of are the synagogues of the Jews that they would go teach in. Maybe I’m wrong (but I don’t think so) but chapels of brick and mortar are never mentioned in the NT, only “churches” in the sense of believers in cities they would visit.
I’m not opposed to there being buildings, but look what that has morphed into… some stadium sized with very expensive systems and practices to draw people to their churches to be entertained. Not a thing like anything described in Jesus’ time.
Does God love a cheerful giver to the church or a cheerful giver to charity? They are not even close to the same thing.
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You want to be proved wrong?
Be honest…..
How much do you contribute financially with church ministries that edify, equip the church and spread the gospel?
How much do you contribute to support families of missionaries local and abroad? They do eat and need room and board. How much do you co tribute financially to the translation of Bibles into different ethnic languages and to cover all the logistics to make sure the gospel reaches all people? Resources are needed for that.
How many food kitchens and food banks lead by Christian organizations to bless the needy in their communities to you support financially and with food? Either food donations or money is needed for that.
How many times have you sold your home and given all the proceeds for the disciples to manage as needed to cover needs of the less fortunate brothers and sisters that are part of your local church?More importantly… how do you sponsor your the ministry of the local church that takes all those resources to bless you and your community?
In the New Testament most certainly the standard is way, way more than 10 % of our earnings. Jesus expected his disciples to give it all and give up everything to follow Him and to put in service of the needy. All of them had all things in common and they all CONGREGATED to read Scripture, Worship and Pray.
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True
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I don’t owe God 10%…I owe Him everything!
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Tithing, No!
Giving cheerfully and generously, Yes! -
The First Fruits belong to God.
The tithe was before the Law. -
Ah Hebrews.. speaks of Melchizedek …
and explains hy -
Why
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The Principle is remained binding in NT 1Cor 16:1-2 – voluntary, proportioned. Cheerfully prepared, and individual
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Does it violate God’s law?
Then stop with the stumbling blocks
And you needed your own thread about tithing, why?
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There are multiple examples in the New Testament of giving.
Matthew 19:21 (100%)
Luke 3:11 (50%)The only credible argument against giving 10% would be that it’s not enough.
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Parable of the talents,
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Well those in the NT gave all their possessions. The OT just gave 10%.
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Whether it is or not, the worker deserves him wages, missionary work needs funded , churches and outreach programs need funded.
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Please read Mat. 23:23, Luke 11:42
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Matt. 23:23
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How do you understand Tithes?
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This is a joke, right?
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Ok so I’m all for the giving and I see what giving accomplishes in the kingdom but to my knowledge there was 3 types of tithe why do we only do the 10% one?? Why don’t we just call it offering? Tithe makes people feel like they have to. But the Bible says not to give begrudgingly because God loves a cheerful giver
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You are correct
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Actually good apologetics does not ask others to prove you wrong, good apologetics provides evidence for their position. So how about you start by giving your evidence for your position. Then I would be happy to discuss it.
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Meditate the OT. Every word of God has meaning. Catch the meaning and apply it to your life.
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It is a symbol where your heart is. The least you can do to say your gratitude for all His grace and blessings !!
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It makes a difference whether you give for a large fine architectural building; or to a poor pastor in Cuba. Tax receipts should make no difference.
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Jesus commands us to give from the heart
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But stewardship is, which includes giving from what God has blest you with back to Him through the local church. A person who questions giving to God is most likely nor saved anywayn
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2 Corinthians 9:6-7
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. -
The one thing about giving that’s so impressive isn’t the amount but the heart. God loves a cheerful giver, so give to God because He has blessed you and I with salvation.
Debate all you wish but this is simple. Give without bitterness and envy in the heart or keep your money. -
Starting an argument with a preconceived understanding tells us you’re not here to find an answer but fight with someone who doesn’t agree with your interpretation of scripture.
Let’s work on glorifying God and unity.
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you can give 50%
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Tithing is complicated- no there is no mandate. But there is a mandate to submission to local church leadership. And local church leadership is always biased towards their cause. The conflict is typically in disagreement in how money should be spent – missions vs buildings Vs salaries etc. I do think there is false teaching, false teachers and leaders along with many good ones. But the principle I have set for myself is if I cannot give even 10% where is my heart. If I pick and chose where to give my 10% what am I saying about Gods leading in my life about where to fellowship in Church. The call to kingdom is the parable of virgins(holiness), talents(stewardship), goat and sheep (serving). Church encompasses all three and hopefully you are in a Church that lives these principles and you are giving at least 10% or like John Piper 90%. As for the false teachers God knows how to save his church – unless you are specifically called to speak out against them like Paul- I would quietly pray and walk away.
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Prove to us that it isn’t…
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Is anyone else weary of the overused phrase “prove me wrong.” I’m pretty sure that any somewhat controversial claim will get a sufficient response.
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Yes Tithing is Old testament in new testament the early church give all they possession for the expansion of the gospel
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Correct!
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10% or 80%or whatsoever doesnt get u neither to Hell or heaven. Why would u even asking a silly quest tho. Christian is all about RELATIONSHIP either with God and people around us. Im gonna quit this page very soon man. Too much toxic.
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“Prove me wrong”? Your approach denotes pride is what is wrong.
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If you are taking a position that tithing is not a kingdom principle, then the burden of proof lies on you, not the person you are making the statement to.
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Giving under GRACE is much greater than under the old economy. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. So giving should be purposed in a mans heart and since we know that God loves those who cheerful give, it seems to me that giving is expected, though not required. May I share an example of New Testament giving? Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. I think an honest look at the scriptures gives every proof that the New Testament Christian indwelled by the Holy Spirit gives more than a tithe instinctively. Let me share what was required in the Old Testament verses what is REQUIRED in the New Testament to prove that the requirements are greater under Grace. Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him LABOR, WORKING with his hands the thing which is good, that he MAY have to GIVE to him that needeth. Under the Old Testament economy your were not to steal, under the New Testament economy you are not only not to steal, but to work and give to those that have needs.
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Malachi 2 tells us to put God to the test that He’ll open the windows of Heaven upon us. Before that though He says He is the Lord and He doesn’t change.
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Jesus said. “What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.” Luke 11:42.
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Great. In the New Testament you no longer are yours but you are Christ’s bought not by gold and silver but by His blood. So tithes really matters when Jesus is the lord of everything you own.
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Tithing is NOT a New Testament principle … BUT God owning EVERYTHING is … Combine this with stewardship and worship it’s not about a percent (EVER) but the heart.
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Matthew 22:17-21 KJV
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? [18] But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? [19] Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. [20] And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? [21] They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.2 Corinthians 9:5-7 KJV
Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. [6] But this I say , He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. [7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give ; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. -
Those who dont read their Bible, pay their tithes.
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In this verse, is Jesus not talking about tithing. When I read this I took it as tithing. What do you all think about this verse?
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.
Matthew 23:23 HCSB -
How could a spirit filled saved Christian not want to give, and why does it matter the reason??
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Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Let not a jot or tittle of the law pass away… my horrible paraphrase but I cant look it uo right now.
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Well… I quit tithing to sectarian Xtianity when I perceived it was not of God. Now… I freely give to those who are in need and ask. But then secular sectarian governments step in between and not many ask anymore. Guess they have chosen their God… you know, the one who swallows up the poor as if in secret. Hmmmm….
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Mark 12:41-44. The old widow give all that she had. She gave more than the rich man had given. Note that Jesus sat down opposite at the place of offering. In the NT we give all our BEST to the Lord. How much do you love God is how much you can give to him. I hope to shed you some light. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biblegateway.com/passage/%3fsearch=Mark%2b12:41-44&version=NIV&interface=amp
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Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law, but He fulfilled the law. Give God everything that is His.
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In the OT, how did tithing fit into the knowledge that everything already belongs to God (Gn 14:22; Deut 10:14; Ps 24:1; etc)? There are a bunch of verses about God owning everything, which is the same principle that motivated the NT believers to be so giving. Is there really a change of principle or a change of heart that happens in the NT?
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Yep people sold everything they had in the nt gave it all away and lived for Christ with him providing for there every need yep 10% is out the window God wants it all now
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Actually the early church sold all of their belongings and gave it to the church also becoming the church. 10% of your increase is also a biblical principle.
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Tithe is my minimum (not legally) and I give it cheerfully.
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Giving is a NT principle!
“They even did more than we had hoped, for their first action was to give themselves to the Lord and to us, just as God wanted them to do.” 2 Cor 8:5 -
Read Malachi.
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Hebrews 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. -
Giving in no longer done by a 10th, but rather a giving heart of what you choose to give from the heart.
Rules of engagement…
1) Am I doing this for self? ❌
2) Am I doing this for God? ❌
3) Am I allowing God to work through me for His Kingdom and glory as I can do nothing of myself? ✅If everything you do and say and commit to is point 3, then you are doing the will and purpose of God as He requires it.
If your church is not doing point 3 always without fail, then support your church,
If your church is not doing point 3 then why on earth are you there? Go help the hungry, thirsty, the stranger, the naked, the sick and those who are in jail.Off you go then, what are you waiting for?
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We are supposed to give however.
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God’s Word never said not to tithe in the NT… God’s Word never said ignore certain things from His Word and obey others… PROVE ME WRONG
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The New Testament churches regularly took up collections. These collections are mentioned all throughout Acts and are referenced in the letters to the Corinthians and Philippians.
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Does the “NT” condone theft?
Tithes BELONGS to God:
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
By not tithing, you are stealing that which belongs to God.
Thus the real question is not whether tithing is a “NT principle”, but rather “is theft is condoned in the NT”
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If you have a problem with giving in general then you spirit is still not renewed. I do believe in generous giving and ministering to the needs of the saints but i don’t endorse compulsory tithing. I have been in the ministry since 2003 and have a pact with God concerning provision. We never ever paid for a building or utilities, He provided. I never at any stage collected tithes from the saints.
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If you guys want to follow the New Testament just to avoid Tithing, then we should have been seen laying all at the apostles feet by now. How many of you have lay anything at all, not to talk of the all?. Remember that all manner of nusical instruments are not of the NT, therefore should be jettisoned. What about that?
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Letters kill, but the Spirit gives life. What’s the point of proving right?
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You’re 100% correct. Many still do this because preachers tell them that they’ll be cursed or they will not enter heaven, using Malichi 3, which was directed to OT priests. (Twisting scriptures for your own interests)
Galatians 3, Paul asked, who has bewitched you? You start by the Spirit, you then move to justification by keeping the Law (Torah).
This will happen for a long time because many have the mindset that being called into a fivefold ministry, means stop working and rely on believers to support you financially, and what a better way than going back to the law
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This question usually tells us more about our attitude towards money. When we see it exclusively as ours to keep, we forget who made it possible for us to have in the first place. 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 “the Lord loves a cheerful giver,” giving was quite a normal practice in the early church, how much is up to the individual. However there is a principle involved. Sow sparingly, reap sparingly, sow bountifully also reap bountifully. God is a blesser, why would anyone not want to be blessed by God. Don’t allow yourself to be enslaved by money, it is so easily lost, just consider how much is being lost during this lockdown, yet God still supplies our needs. ?
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It is not mandatory but harmless as well.
Tithing is part of the law of Moses but not a moral law. We are saved by Grace and not by law keeping but if you are saved and hav the spirit of Christ , you will have no problem with giving a tithe. But…..It is not a prerequisite for redemption. It is an indication of what is in you. -
All I know is that God wants us to pay tithes. He spoke to me directly at some point about it when I was about to use my tithe Money for vacation. He appeared and directed me. Since then, i don’t touch tithe money. So if you use it, it’s up to you. He will show up to you as well one day.
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May I know what do you suggest in the replacement of your tithes? Because the pastors and ministers are people too that have needs and family to feed. The ministries need where to get its fundings. The church building, it’s development and maintenance. Aren’t all these needs fundings?
As I understood the purpose of tithes and offerings is to support the maintenance of the temple and those who work in it. In our church today who will support? Did all members have concerns to the ministry or ministers?
There Pastors who work part-time/fulltime in secular job because their members could not support the ministry because their members are less fortunate.
Is this an issue of Faith?Whose faith? The pastors who followed their calling that God will provide their needs. Or to the members of the church that wanted to be blessed and murmur on what they give?
Please support our church if we love it as our spiritual home while we’re in this world. -
I came empty. I own nothing. I was lost. Now that I am found, tithing is to me an expression of gratitude.
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If you dont tithe your’e sowing a seed of distrust because tithing is a test in trust, if you know to render the things of the government to the government then how about the things of God? Search your heart, which you love the most, God or money…?
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Why do many assume that those who do not believe that the principle of the tithe is for now, want to not give at all?
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The Word says in Matthew 23:23
” Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy and faith: THESE OUGHT YE TO HAVE DONE, AND NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE.”(Emphasis made)
Jesus is not against paying of tithe. -
Straight from Jesus – we are to tithe.
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach.
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.”
Matthew 23:1-3, 13, 23 NLT https://www.bible.com/bible/116/mat.23.1-3,13,23.nlt -
I really thought this said Tinting. As in tinting your car windows. And I literally just laughed out loud.
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Where do you find the command to tithe in the New Testament. You will not find it. The Lord requires all not ten percent.
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Yes tithing is NT law . That was before cross we are after the cross . Salvation came to us gentiles without any sacrifice . We are saved by eternal hell . How much more we should be giving. If we still think of tithe shame on us.Now 100% belongs to God who gave his LIFE for us . He loved us first hellbound sinners. Our life and all we have is His. Praise to His name. He takes care of our needs. Should give to Lord happily ??
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Tithing was given to the temple and priests in the Old Testament . We no longer have a Temple and we no longer live in an agrarian society, living of the land.
New Testament giving is willingly and graciously unto God.. church or tithing is not the only way of giving to God. Christian character is one of giving sacrificially “ If God touch your heart, He will surely touch your pockets”
In the same opposite way , if he has not touched your pocket , then he surely has not touched your heart ❤️ -
Tithing is SCRIPTURAL (Jesus & Paul did it), prove me wrong!!!
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You can never prove someone wrong that has made up his mind he is already right. We are all learning at different stages. There is no where in the scriptures that assert tithing is wrong at anytime. Since ABRAHAM tithed before the law, tithing was not a matter of the Law until Moses and that for the Jewish nation. No one can say that to tithe is wrong; it is a matter of conviction and conscious. If God calls you to tithe do it; if not don’t. Most people when they say things like this are trying to get rid of responsibility. God already set you free in Christ Jesus. Tithing is between God and each of us. Not a matter to be judged. Don’t limit yourself and others in your giving. Be generous, not stingy. Amen.
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It is not wrong. In the New Testament followers of Jesus Christ are told to give what they can, and to do it joyfully. However, that also allows people to tithe if they want to.
Tithing was crops, not money. -
While OT is 10% giving, the NT is a blank cheque giving.
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Tithes started in Genesis 14 well before the “law”.
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“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, and yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.”
Matthew 23:23Tithing was definitely practiced in the NT, and Jesus said, “these things should have been done without neglecting the others”, when mentioning the tithing of the pharisees. Anyways, I believe most christians who are truly saved and actually make money will have no problem giving away 10% of their income joyfully, to help their church or another church.
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So pastors and other associates that are working full time are they supposed to eat rock and survive?
There are many more but there is nothing in NT that is against tithing either. -
Correct, more is required from the cheerful heart.
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you are right its a Biblical principal
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“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, and yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.”
Matthew 23:23 -
Give..not an equation or formula
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Church is the repository of God’s wealth for His people and since the gentile Christians are grafted wild olives unto natural olive Israel, they are still part and parcel of the inheritance of the chosen people and therefore should still apply all giving or support for the church maintenance and finances from the old testament. And we have one God, same with the Jews.
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