If there were more miracles, everyone would be a Christian.

This is an argument I've heard before from both atheists and Christians struggling to understand their faith in God.

I've been studying Genesis lately and the story of Noah in particular recently.

In Genesis 6:9–10, the ESV says:

These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

While "everyone" knows that Noah walked with God, I had never really paid attention before to the fact that the spiritual status of his three sons are never identified. All the text tells us here is that:

  1. Noah was righteous and walked with God.
  2. And also, Noah had three sons, none of which are identified as worshipers or non-worshipers of Yahweh.

However, in Gen 9:18–27, the text goes way out of its way to identify Ham with Canaan, which may (or may not) indicate that he worshiped the gods that are later associated with Canaan. (In the Ancient Near East, as in many other cultures, there are "patron gods." A patron god is a god who protects/presides over a specific person, place, or group. Worship of that god is passed down a lineage. Did the Canaanites inherit their Ba'al worship from Ham?)

After Ham "saw the nakedness of his father," Noah "awoke from his wine" and said:

25    “Cursed be Canaan;

            a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

        “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem;

            and let Canaan be his servant.

27    May God enlarge Japheth,

            and let him dwell in the tents of Shem,

            and let Canaan be his servant.”

Most interesting to me is that he cursed Canaan, but instead of blessing Shem or Japeth, he specifically blessed "[Yahweh], 'the God of Shem.'" It would be easy to argue that he's left out Ham because of Ham's sin toward his father, but why not say "the God of Shem and Japeth"? It seems to imply (though not explicitly state) that Yahweh is only the God of Shem among the three.

It blows my mind that these guys could see:

  • Yahweh give Noah explicit, crazy sounding instructions,
  • watch the ark be built "just in time,"
  • watch two of every kind of unclean animal and seven pairs of every clean animal and bird come onto the ark of their own free will,
  • watch everyone outside the ark perish at the hand of the God who told Noah His plan,
  • watch every animal survive on the ark for some 371 days,
  • see that they and the animals all had enough food for that amount of time,

and still be like, "Yeah, I really think I'm still gonna go with this other god."

I've heard people argue that if God was real, He could just do more miracles, and then everyone would believe in Him. I think this story shows that even if God went around doing miracles for everyone all of the time, there are still people who would be like, "Cool story, but I'mma worship this other god instead."

submitted by /u/shaunbwilson
[link] [comments]

If there were more miracles, everyone would be a Christian.

This is an argument I've heard before from both atheists and Christians struggling to understand their faith in God.

I've been studying Genesis lately and the story of Noah in particular recently.

In Genesis 6:9–10, the ESV says:

These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

While "everyone" knows that Noah walked with God, I had never really paid attention before to the fact that the spiritual status of his three sons are never identified. All the text tells us here is that:

  1. Noah was righteous and walked with God.
  2. And also, Noah had three sons, none of which are identified as worshipers or non-worshipers of Yahweh.

However, in Gen 9:18–27, the text goes way out of its way to identify Ham with Canaan, which may (or may not) indicate that he worshiped the gods that are later associated with Canaan. (In the Ancient Near East, as in many other cultures, there are "patron gods." A patron god is a god who protects/presides over a specific person, place, or group. Worship of that god is passed down a lineage. Did the Canaanites inherit their Ba'al worship from Ham?)

After Ham "saw the nakedness of his father," Noah "awoke from his wine" and said:

25    “Cursed be Canaan;

            a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

        “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem;

            and let Canaan be his servant.

27    May God enlarge Japheth,

            and let him dwell in the tents of Shem,

            and let Canaan be his servant.”

Most interesting to me is that he cursed Canaan, but instead of blessing Shem or Japeth, he specifically blessed "[Yahweh], 'the God of Shem.'" It would be easy to argue that he's left out Ham because of Ham's sin toward his father, but why not say "the God of Shem and Japeth"? It seems to imply (though not explicitly state) that Yahweh is only the God of Shem among the three.

It blows my mind that these guys could see:

  • Yahweh give Noah explicit, crazy sounding instructions,
  • watch the ark be built "just in time,"
  • watch two of every kind of unclean animal and seven pairs of every clean animal and bird come onto the ark of their own free will,
  • watch everyone outside the ark perish at the hand of the God who told Noah His plan,
  • watch every animal survive on the ark for some 371 days,
  • see that they and the animals all had enough food for that amount of time,

and still be like, "Yeah, I really think I'm still gonna go with this other god."

I've heard people argue that if God was real, He could just do more miracles, and then everyone would believe in Him. I think this story shows that even if God went around doing miracles for everyone all of the time, there are still people who would be like, "Cool story, but I'mma worship this other god instead."

submitted by /u/shaunbwilson
[link] [comments]