Author

No one chose to exist.

“The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he HAD NOT BEEN BORN.”
– Matthew 26:24 King James Version (KJV)

None of us chose to exist. If it’s true that God respects our so called “free” will then why did He not ask us first if we wanted to exist or not? How about all the other factors that comprise who we are, such as sex, skin color, height, etc.? Did we get the option to choose any of the factors that comprise who and what we are?

When God created He knew the fate of His creation. Knowing that He still went ahead with it.

Did He have other options?

Or was He bound to create what He foresaw Himself creating and had no other choice?

Could He have created beings that He foresaw never perishing?

As parents if we had the ability to know how our kids would turn out before we conceived them what choices would we make? Would we opt to have sex on a different day?

If you were able to know the future and that by having sex with your husband tonight would result in the birth of a child who would be evil would you choose to proceed? Or would you choose to have sex on a night that you knew would result in the conception of a child who would be good?

I’ve thought about these things very extensively.

God created Lucifer with the foreknowledge that he would become the Devil.

Did God have no choice in the matter? Was He bound to His future actions?

He could have opted to create a different Cherub that would not rebel. But He chose not to.

There is immediate responsibility, and there is ultimate responsibility.

It’s up to us to make decisions, but in the ultimate scheme of things those decisions come to be because the Prime Mover brought us into existence knowing that we would make them.

We don’t originate from a vacuum with no rhyme or reason. There are factors that brought us into being and that comprise who we are as individuals. Those factors did not arise from chance or from a place of non causation. Ultimately we must trace all things, including our choices, decisions, and acts, back to the Prime Mover (Unmoved Mover).

One thing is certain. None of us made the choice to exist. Or did we? If we did then we are indeed free agents with the will to determine our existence and future. But if we didn’t then we have no claim to autonomy.

Are we simply the product of chance and randomness, or were we put into motion by a Prime Mover outside ourselves? A Prime Mover who knew the eventual outcome of our lives before we even existed, and who desired that outcome above any other foreseen possible outcome? For in bringing about our existence was also brought about the outcome of our lives. An outcome which was foreseen as one amongst many other possible outcomes. And yet that one outcome was chosen out of all the others.

If God knew what we would do before He created us, and had the option of creating someone else who would make different choices, who is ultimately responsible for our choices and actions?

If I am contemplating creating a human and I can look into the future at their every decision, I am responsible for the decisions that person makes because by bringing that person into existence I also bring that person’s choices into existence.

Example:

I can create Mike. I have looked into the future and Mike will be a good person.

Or,

I can create Jim. I have looked into the future and Jim will be a murderer.

In like manner, when God created Lucifer He knew he would become the devil, and when He created Adam He knew he would become a sinner.

Along the same lines God had the choice of creating Mike whom He foresaw making a choice to love Him and as a result go to heaven.

And He had a choice to create Jim whom He foresaw not loving Him and as a result go to hell.

If He creates Mike who makes the choice that he go to heaven?

And if He creates Jim who makes the choice that he go to hell?

Do we really have free will?

“Free-will doctrine-what does it? It magnifies man into God. It declares God’s purposes a nullity, since they cannot be carried out unless men are willing. It makes God’s will a waiting servant to the will of man, and the whole covenant of grace dependent on human action. Denying election on the ground of injustice, it holds God to be a debtor to sinners.”
– Charles Spurgeon

“Man is nothing; he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him” and “you dishonour God by denying election. You plainly make salvation depend, not on God’s ‘free grace’ but on Man’s ‘free will.'”
-George Whitefield

“Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven.”
– Charles Spurgeon

“Free will is an illusion. Our wills are simply not of our own making. Thoughts and intentions emerge from background causes of which we are unaware and over which we exert no conscious control.”
– Sam Harris, Free Will

“Take a moment to think about the context in which your next decision will occur: You did not pick your parents or the time and place of your birth. You didn’t choose your gender or most of your life experiences. You had no control whatsoever over your genome or the development of your brain. And now your brain is making choices on the basis of preferences and beliefs that have been hammered into it over a lifetime – by your genes, your physical development since the moment you were conceived, and the interactions you have had with other people, events, and ideas. Where is the freedom in this? Yes, you are free to do what you want even now. But where did your desires come from?”
– Sam Harris

“The men and women on death row have some combination of bad genes, bad parents, bad environments, and bad ideas (and the innocent, of course, have supremely bad luck). Which of these quantities, exactly, were they responsible for? No human being is responsible for his genes or his upbringing, yet we have every reason to believe that these factors determine his character. Our system of justice should reflect an understanding that any of us could have been dealt a very different hand in life. In fact, it seems immoral not to recognize just how much luck is involved in morality itself.”
– Sam Harris

“Liberals tend to understand that a person can be lucky or unlucky in all matters relevant to his success. Conservatives, however, often make a religious fetish of individualism.

Many seem to have absolutely no awareness of how fortunate one must be to succeed at anything in life, no matter how hard one works. One must be lucky to be able to work. One must be lucky to be intelligent, physically healthy, and not bankrupted in middle age by the illness of a spouse.”
– Sam Harris

“Nothing in all the vast universe can come to pass otherwise than God has eternally purposed. Here is a foundation of faith. Here is a resting place for the intellect. Here is an anchor for the soul, both sure and steadfast. It is not blind fate, unbridled evil, man or Devil, but the Lord Almighty who is ruling the world, ruling it according to His own good pleasure and for His own eternal glory.”
– Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God

“Nothing is a surprise to God; nothing is a setback to His plans; nothing can thwart His purposes; and nothing is beyond His control. His sovereignty is absolute. Everything that happens is uniquely ordained by God. Sovereignty is a weighty thing to ascribe to the nature and character of God. Yet if He were not sovereign, He would not be God. The Bible is clear that God is in control of everything that happens.”
– Joni Eareckson Tada

“Psychologists need to comprehend that the logic of the physical universe – indeed, any possible universe – rules out free choice, and irrespective of the indeterminism of quantum theory. Why? Well, because who a person happens to be from a moral point of view cannot possibly be under his or her control. To be responsible for how they act they would have to be responsible for how they are, and to be responsible for how they are they would have had to have created themselves, and no one can be the causa sui, the ultimate ‘cause of oneself’, because in order to do so, he or she would have to be in every sense his or her own parent, his or her own author. If you try to argue that a person has created himself or herself then you have to posit an earlier self that creates the later self, but then you note that the earlier self could not have created itself but must have been created by an earlier self, and you end up with an infinite regress of selves needed (Strawson, 1994). Yet, ultimately for libertarian free will you need an initial creator self, a ‘prime mover’ self, which is impossible to get to because how would it have come into existence?”
– Excerpt from an essay on free will

“Present-day libertarians tend to pin their hopes for free will on quantum mechanics, but the random chance of quantum theory has no connection whatsoever to the concept of ethical freedom; the freedom to choose, the freedom to will. Doing something because (hypothetically) a subatomic particle randomly moves inside your skull offers no more freedom than doing something because genes or culture dictate it. The quantum event may be uncaused, but your (hypothetical) resulting action would itself be caused by the quantum event. The action is therefore not uncaused, and it is most certainly not chosen or willed. Indeterminism cannot save free will for humankind, because if the mind is, at least in part, undetermined, then some things ‘just happen’ in it outside the laws of causation for which, by definition, nobody and nothing is responsible. An individual is not responsible if their actions are caused, because those actions were ultimately set in motion before they were even born. But an individual is also not responsible if some of their actions are uncaused, because those actions just came out of nowhere. To be freely choosing an individual would have to be free from both deterministic effects and indeterministic effects. Free from both A and not-A, as a logician would put it. To be freely choosing you cannot have A, but you cannot have not-A either; free choice requires something that cannot logically exist in this or any possible universe.”
– Excerpt from an essay on free will

No choice or decision is ever made in a vacuum “free” of all internal and external factors that influence and determine that choice or decision. And sovereign over all those factors is God’s rule. By command or permission every factor is always where, when, and how God wills it to be.

The true definition of “free” will is that you can make choices and decisions free of any internal and external influencing factors. That is not possible. Only if you existed in a vacuum free from all such factors could you really make a free choice or decision. But if you did exist in such a state you would not exist at all.

9 For God had promised, “I will return about this time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he married Rebekah, she gave birth to twins. 11 But BEFORE THEY WERE BORN, BEFORE THEY HAD DONE ANYTHING GOOD OR BAD, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes; 12 he calls people, but NOT ACCORDING TO THEIR GOOD OR BAD WORKS.) She was told, “Your older son will serve your younger son.” 13 In the words of the Scriptures, “I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau.”

14 Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! 15 For God said to Moses,

“I will show mercy to anyone I CHOOSE,
and I will show compassion to anyone I CHOOSE.”
– Romans 9:9-15 New Living Translation (NLT)

Discussion

31 comments

  1. Duane L Burgess says:

    we must be born from above.

  2. Alexander Faburada says:

    These are one of those things that sounds cool but unfortunately NOT biblical.

  3. Rizaldy S. Menor says:

    Foreknowledge precedes predestination… What is predestination to us is actual demonstration of God’s foreknowledge

    Romans 8:29-30 ESV
    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

    1 Peter 1:20 ESV
    He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

    1 Peter 1:2 ESV
    According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

    Acts 2:23 ESV
    This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

    Psalm 139:4 ESV
    Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

    Psalm 139:16 ESV
    Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

    Revelation 4:1-2 ESV
    After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

    Romans 11:2 ESV
    God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

  4. Tirimba Silvester says:

    U r right

  5. Peter Grapsas says:

    100% very true. We don’t have a choice.. It’s all of God

  6. Jay Manongdo Vanquiray says:

    It is what it is. God is God. Who are we to question Him. This only shows that we should have no choice but to obey Him but we do otherwise…

  7. Steve Taylor says:

    It’s a bit of a lame analogy – just because you *can* extend analogies like this to say things Jesus didn’t explicitly say doesn’t mean that you should. This is a very basic hermeneutical error. Preachers of MacArthur’s calibre should know better.

    What’s next – “just as physical birth caused a lot of pain for your mother, so it had to cause lots of physical pain to Jesus”

  8. Carol Myers says:

    I agree, our spiritual birth is entirely of God.”it is by grace you are saved least any one boast”..it is written,..we may REJECT the gift of salvation, but our surrender to Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit

  9. Raymond Grignon says:

    You are a little too worked up about it…. could you be pastored by John Wesley or would you rise up and denounce him as carnal because he exalted man over God in salvation? Just curious…

  10. Matthew Boyce says:

    Dude that might have been the longest Facebook post I’ve ever seen lol. But to answer your question in a sort of roundabout way…I love my son. He’s 13. If I knew before he was born every mistake he would ever make or every terrible thing he would do…I’d still want him. I’d still want to know him.

    Secondly, this world is broken but it’s through the difficult things that we grow and this life is a drop in the ocean compared to eternity. God is giving us a brief moment to grow and mature and to us its agony, like a small child getting a shot. But we sit here and cry about it because like children we dont understand. However when we have children we still get them that shot because, though it hurts us to watch, we understand the lasting benefit of it. We carry our experiences here into eternity, good or bad.

  11. Angwang Martin Abajuh says:

    I am sorry but fundamentally, this is the greatest falsehood and distortion about man! The first and most prominent thing about man that cannot be taken from him is his choice in all that concerns him, from his very beginning thought out his existence; it is so sacred that God Almighty Himself cannot violate it! It is his choice that determines all about him from the smallest to the biggest things!

  12. Alan White says:

    Hi John, why did God then say to Cain that he was to master sin in Genesis 4:7 God gives Cain a way out he is to do whats right and he will be accepted but if not then sin is crouching at the door and sins desire is to have Cain but God says you must master it or rule over it?

  13. Alan White says:

    Unfortunately none of these men who say they have the truth seem to be demonstrating any of the power of God though the Holy Spirit.

  14. Larry Koester says:

    I agree with John on this issue, though we do have our difcerencies. Man by nature is spiritually dead in trespasses and sin and a bated of the God of Scripture and needs God’s gift of salvation. Still because off how he made Nan he is approached through what that Bible calls the foolishness of preaching. You’ll have to discuss the issue with him and you probably still would not unxerstaand how it works. But it is not human initiated or empowered according to him.

  15. Kristen Park says:

    How do you know no one chose to be born just because you don’t remember it? #justsayin

  16. Ernest Young says:

    Keep it simple. If we have no say over our “Spiritual Birth” then why must we be baptized? Baptism is an outward proclamation of us dying in the flesh and rising with Christ. This is not a gift of God or a work but a free will choice that signifies our submittal to Christ.

  17. Anthony R. Vacanti says:

    Yes, we cannot come to Christ except the Spirit of the Father draw us (John 6:44). But, for those who boast, “The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee” (Romans 11:19-21). Jesus says of the believer who is a branch of the Vine, “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away” (John 15:2). We are admonished, “See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not WE escape, IF WE turn away from him that speaketh from heaven” (Hebrews 12:25). “And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved” (Mark 13:13).

  18. Jeremiah Waldrop says:

    So why is he telling us? This is why preaching, apologetics, and evangelism will change nothing – most are predestined to hell by God’s sovereign irresistible, perfect, secret will, right? The future is set, right?

  19. Jeremiah Waldrop says:

    That would mean people are guilty for failing to do something they had no ability to do.

  20. Rick Holtsclaw says:

    Though salvation is a work of God, it is the free will of man that initiates that work (John 3:16). Unless one is willing to humble them self before God by faith, they will not enter into His rest. Predestination is a work of Evil and nullifies the holiness, righteousness, justice, love, of God and without free will having been infused in both the angelic and human creation, love and relationship with God could not manifest with purity and equity.

    “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” John 12:32

  21. Paul Norman Hanover says:

    Romans 8: 29-30
    For those God foreknew(A) he also predestined(B) to be conformed to the image of his Son,(C) that he might be the firstborn(D) among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined,(E) he also called;(F) those he called, he also justified;(G) those he justified, he also glorified.(H)

    Just as Jesus, who was 100 percent human alongside full God nature, freely chose to answer God’s call to the cross as a human, due to foreknowledge that He would, so we humans, under the same kind of foreknowledge, can make a choice to answer His call to salvation. My sheep know me and they hear my voice. If they hear him, they want to, because they get that it’s the Good Shepherd calling, and they want to come, thus they choose to come. This is based on foreknowledge, knowing they would choose him back. God doesn’t call those who won’t listen, but that doesn’t mean that He forces the will of those who do. Predestination is based on the foreknowledge that we would choose.

    Romans 1 says those who reject God are without excuse, but the idea of predestination that is not married to free will, a salvation where God chooses us without any choice on our part, where we are forced into salvation, is a doctrine that annihilates Romans 1. Suddenly, Christians are insisting there is an excuse, total depravity, and that no men seek God, even though we know that some do as they are called seekers, and that only through infallible grace, which is unscriptural in the EXTREME, can we find the only way out through God forcing you to be a good little puppet of your own. So, now, we pretend that a heart choice is a work, which it is not. Now, we demand that God arbitrarily chooses those He likes and arbitrarily chooses those He hates and wanted to create them just to torture them for all eternity, and they pretend this lines up with the character of God at all, and it does not.

    Moreso, it backhandedly gives sinners an excuse. God made them without their choice. God made them in a fallen time on purpose, without their choice. And they remain damned and tortured for all eternity without their choice. This must be true, according to this warped doctrine, because those that are saved, according to this warped doctrine, make no choice and are forced into salvation. This puts ALL accountability on God. Surely, man is embracing sin, but he’s not choosing sin. Choice implies that you have other options. If the damned have no other option, and the saved have no other option, then God is accountable and man is not. If God is accountable for damnation, and punishes sinners for it, that’s an egregious and terrible sin and against all of God’s codes of love and justice. This is surely not true, not just based on logic, but the many Scriptures that contradict it and keep it from being true. This also means that this doctrine gives them an excuse. You are saying that God’s sovereignty is keeping them that way and that’s the worst Calvinist fallacy. That contradicts all the New Testament command imperatives to believe/receive/confess/repent and the punishments/ warnings of those that don’t. All those verses become useless and basically throwaway verses under this 5 point Calvinism. It’s not full Arminian and it’s not full Calvinism, both had some right and some wrong answers. It was just an intellectual debate and they both didn’t get it fully right. The middle of these two finds the highest degree of unification of the Scriptures.

  22. Mark Fonner says:

    This is where I disagree with MacArthur. If this is true, we in the Christian world have a dichotomy. This is his Calvinism showing through.

  23. Miracle Madueke says:

    Truueee. We came into this world not by ourselves.

  24. Dwight Osborne says:

    hence one of the reasons I don’t listen to John MacArthur. Yes, the word of God teaches predestination and election. So then those elements are true. Yet, the word of God also says free will is just as true. If the 5-pt. Calvinist view is correct, then why did the sovereign Lord destroy the human population, with the exception of Noah and his family in the flood? Why did He destroy Sodom, Gomorrah, Tyre, Sidon and Nineveh? Why not just make everybody believe? Also, if the Calvinist view is correct why are these passages included in Scripture concerning Israel who is the elect of God, in fact, the original elect of God? Just a few chapters in Deuteronomy show us that people have free will and can choose to obey or disobey. Examples are Deuteronomy 5, 8, 11 and 30. Joshua obviously knew the principle of free will played an important part-“And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15 God could force everyone to obey Him but allegiance and obedience out of obligation and force is not His desire. He wants service and worship to be out of love, devotion and our desire to satisfy Him. Yes, we choose and love Him because He first loved and chose us but He draws us, He doesn’t drag us

  25. Flow Renzd says:

    John camara, i have the same question. Please, if you got the answer please share it to me. Thank you so much.

  26. Flow Renzd says:

    Explain it to me simply please if you will. Thanks.

  27. Fred Galvez says:

    Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the word of God but this free gift does require cooperation and conformance or one becomes exposed to the fate of the barren fig tree

  28. John Simon says:

    I Am The Proof That Spiritual Birth Is Work Of Divine.
    I Was A Muslim.

    Jesus Drove Me To Spirituality.
    I Never Thought That I Will Convert To Christianity One Day.

    But Now I Am Blessed.

  29. Grace Williams says:

    Predestination in the Bible has nothing to do with salvation.

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