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What exactly is the Trinity? First of all, no where in the Bible did it ever said God is three separate persons. God is the Creator of the universe. The Creator does not exist within the created universe and cannot be restricted by it. Thats is why we, His creations cannot see Him. Jesus is God manifesting himself to his creation within this created universe so that he can interact with us. The Holy spirit which cannot be seen, is simply God’s omniscience and omnipotence. Thats why Jesus said I and the Father are one and those who have see me has seen the Father. He was also prophesied in Isaiah 9:6 as the everlasting Father. God in the form of Jesus can manifest himself to many people all at once, He is not limited by space or location. He can manifest himself in as many ways He like all at the same time, like the Holy Spirit which dwells in us. He cannot be restricted by how man perceive Him.

God is One supreme being, there is no need for three separate persons

Discussion

51 comments

  1. Ross Punter says:

    The trinity is a doctrine that comes from an understanding of the full revelation of scripture, both Old and New Testament. We recognise that God is one (Deut 6:4) But we also see that scripture attributes divinity to three persons equally. (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Matt 28:19 says to baptise in the name (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (plural). John 1:1-3 tells us that Jesus was there from the beginning with God and also is in fact God. Combining this with Isaiah 44:24 where we see it says of God that he was alone at creation ‘who was with me?’ means that Jesus must also be God (otherwise these passages would contradict). Jesus himself said that ‘all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father’. There is a clear distinction between the Son and the Father, and yet to honour them the same means that they must both be God. (Philippians 2:6-7 further emphasises equality). The unity and distinction is made clear again in 1 Cor 8:6 stating that there is one God, the Father… and one Lord Jesus Christ. We see also in Colossians 2:9 that in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and yet there is a distinction between he and the Father in the fact that they are able to communicate with one another – have a relationship with each other. (As Jesus prays to the Father). We also see that the Holy Spirit is it’s own personal entity and yet fully God in Acts 5:3-4. Ananias is accused of lying to the Holy Ghost, as if the Holy Ghost is a person. It then goes on to say that he has not lied unto men but unto God. This confirms that the Holy Ghost is God (Or at least according to Peter. John 14:26 and Ephesians 4:30 are other good passages to see the personal nature of the Holy Ghost.

  2. Kevin Moldenhauer says:

    When we survey the Bible, we see that God is made up of three distinct persons.

    For instance, Jesus prayed directly to the Father as a separate being (Mt. 11:27; 26:39; Jn. 14:16-17). We can hardly make sense of the “high priestly prayer” unless the Father and Son are separate persons (Jn. 17).

    Elsewhere, Jesus spoke of the Father and the Holy Spirit as distinct from himself (Lk. 11:13; Jn. 14:26; 15:26). Jesus told us to baptize new believers “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Mt. 28:19).

    Paul spoke of all three persons of the Trinity, when he wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).

    Likewise, Peter spoke of believers being chosen by “God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood” (1 Pet. 1:2). 14:26).

    At Jesus’ baptism, we read, “[Jesus] saw the heavens opening and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: ‘You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased’” (Mk. 1:10-11).

    While the three persons are distinct and separate centers of consciousness, they also agree with one another in their decisions and actions. We see this in the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:1-2; Jn. 1:1-3), Jesus’ resurrection (Gal. 1:1; Acts 2:24, 32; Rom. 1:4; Jn. 2:19; 10:18), and the indwelling of believers (Jn. 14:16, 18, 23; Rom. 8:9).

  3. Ian Self says:

    No need for a trinity? You mean you don’t understand
    basically because of a lack of knowledge of jesus. No one can reveal God to us except God and Jesus came to reveal God to us through himself. When you know Jesus you’ll know God. It’s a revelation

  4. Keri Hutson says:

    This subject has been beat to death! All the verses pointing to God being 3 in 1 have been stated and over stated. By NOW, when TRUTH has been spoken and brought to your door, how can you NOT understand this concept? ???

  5. Keri Hutson says:

    I know, because you don’t want to understand. I get it. SIGH

  6. Jack Johnston says:

    Just realize that the supposed orthodox doctrine was an attempt to reconcile passages that attribute divinity the the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You would think that something so pivotal would have been expressed better by the very Trinity Itself.

  7. Emmanuel Agui says:

    Your modalism is a long rejected false doctrine. The writings of the early church fathers are replete with their rebuttal of that unorthodox teaching. Isaiah 9.6 does not say the child shall be God the Father! In fact, the same verse clears that he is the SON given. And if you will accept what the verse say, the SON was given – HE was already the Son! That is not manifestation – the Son was BEGOTTEN in eternal generation Hb. 1.5.
    And that is the biggest mistake of this “oneness” doctrine. It does not uphold THE BEGETTING of the Son! And that doctrine of Jesus being the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON is central to the New Testament. God sent His Son – He was already the Son when He was sent Jn. 3.16
    You do not find DISTINCTION? Either you have not read your Bible or just blink on verses in unbelief. I Cor. 8.6 makes a clear distinction – The Father is God and Jesus is Lord. Hb. 1.8-9 also says the Father is “God, thy God …”. In John 17.5 Jesus demands the Father to glorify Him as He had that glory before time. He is the MEDIATOR between God and man I Tim. 2.5 – that is a CLEAR declaration of distinction not mere manifestation!

  8. Peter Taylor says:

    Sounds a lot like modalism, which has been soundly refuted scripturally. Jesus is one in nature with the Father. He did not simply pray to himself, nor send himself when He and the Father sent the Holy Spirit, Whom Jesus said was “Another Comforter.” The three are one in essence, but are distinctly 3 in person. This is clearly what the Old and NT show.

  9. Ashley Moore says:

    Reject the Trinity, you’ve just rejected the true God of the Bible.

  10. Ben Incoll says:

    GENESIS 1:26 SAYS “LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, ACCORDING TO OUR LIKENESS” WHO IS US AND OUR & WHO WAS GOD SPEAKING TOO ?
    JOHN 1:1 JOHN EXPLAINS JESUS WAS GOD AND WAS THERE IN THE BEGINNING
    JOHN 2:19 JESUS SAYS HE WILL RAISE HIS OWN BODY, HE DID NOT SAY HIS FATHER WILL RAISE HIM OR THE ONE WHO SENT HIM BUT JESUS HIMSELF WILL
    JOHN 17:5 JESUS PRAYS TO THE FATHER TO GLORIFY HIM WITH GOD, WITH THE GLORY HE HAD WITH GOD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS FORMED.
    JOHN 20:28 THOMAS CALLS JESUS LORD AND GOD
    ISAIAH 9:6 DESCRIBES JESUS AS EVERLASTING FATHER AND MIGHTY GOD
    ISAIAH 7:14 CALLS JESUS IMMANUEL WHICH MEANS “GOD WITH US”
    `ACTS 5:35 EXPLAINS THAT LYING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT IS LYING TO GOD
    ROMANS 3:30 SAYS THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
    ISAIAH 44:6 I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ME
    REVELATION 22:13 JESUS SAYS I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST – THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE FIRST AND LAST (THEY ARE THE SAME)
    JOHN 10:30 JESUS SAYS “I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE”

    THE TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD IS DISPLAYED FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION.

  11. Vic Clement says:

    It’s like a broken record in this group. Same old heresy playing over and over. *yawn*

  12. Lawrence Apitz says:

    the father , son and Holy Spirit are described in the greek in the language of persons, that justifies the term used.

  13. John Wolf says:

    So Jesus Christ is his own Father. Interesting indeed. Can you point to anything in nature that God has created that would explain how one person can be both his own father and his own son at the same time? According to the book of Romans chapter 1, God has placed things in nature to help us understand him and his nature. So feel free to show us all at least one example of what I asked. Thank you.

  14. Carol Strong says:

    Let us make man in our image, and you will receive the Holy Spirit ….

  15. Joel Simon says:

    Hoh Jin Wei nope…they are three personalitues hence,they can talk with each other.
    And please read the following communication betweeen God the Father and his Son who is God eternal at the same time.

    But unto the Son he(THE FATHER) saith,

    “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
    Hebrews 1:8‭-‬10 KJV

    READ THE ENTIRE passage.
    Trinity needs to more explanation.

    Its beyond us!

  16. Monica Infante Bartsch-Bersales says:

    God being One supreme being does not negate the Trinity.

    To say God cannot be 3 persons is just man’s logic trying to limit God.

  17. Scott King says:

    Modalism 101, antibiblical and scripture denying

  18. Marc Smalley Collins says:

    You are confusing God’s attributes (His Omnsciences and His Omnipresents) with the third person of the Godhead (What most Christians refer to as the Trinity). The Holy Spirit was sent when Jesus ascended to the Father.

  19. John Carson says:

    Hoh, these are typical straw man attacks brought on by arguing against what we don’t believe.

    “What exactly is the Trinity?”
    The question was a good start. (I love the triune God). But your question was asked as if you are the wise teacher about to give a lesson to us ignorant students of what you think you know about what we believe, in order to destroy the beliefs of us born-again Christians.

    “First of all, no where in the Bible did it ever said God is three separate persons.”
    You’re right, because they have never been “separate”. They have eternally been ‘with’ each other. You cannot use the being of humanity to describe the Being of God. We are human “beings” and are separate from one another. The term ‘separate’ cannot be properly used of the Godhead (‘distinct’ is better, but there is no word that can properly describe their relationship and Being). You’re not starting off representing the Trinitarian position correctly. I suggest you learn more and stop trying to find straw men arguments to burn down.

    “God is the Creator of the universe.”
    Yes. We do not teach anything contrary.

    “The Creator does not exist within the created universe and cannot be restricted by it. Thats is why we, His creations cannot see Him.”
    Ok. As a Trinitarian, my thoughts are not opposed to this. I would say though that God’s non-restrictions are not the reasons we cannot see Him. Jesus said, “God is Spirit”. (John 4:24)

    “Jesus is God manifesting himself to his creation within this created universe so that he can interact with us.”
    Yahweh can choose whatever way(s) He wants to interact with His Creation.

    “The Holy spirit which cannot be seen, is simply God’s omniscience and omnipotence.”
    The Holy Spirit is a Person. There’s nothing ‘simple’ about Him. Would you also describe the Holy Spirit as “simply” omnipresent as well? Of course not, because that would be a degrading description of God.

    “Thats why Jesus said I and the Father are one and those who have see me has seen the Father.”
    Because the Holy Spirit is “SIMPLY God’s omniscience and omnipotence”? You’re connecting dots where there are no dots. Jesus never said He is the Holy Spirit…. He said he would ask the Father and He will send ANOTHER (John 14:16). You quoted John 10:30 where Jesus said, “I and the Father we are one.” (check the Greek). You have the speaker (first person singular) speaking of another (third person singular), and with the word ‘are’ (ἐσμεν). You don’t speak of your singular self as “are”, but as “am”.

    “He was also prophesied in Isaiah 9:6 as the everlasting Father.”
    “Everlasting Father” means “father of eternity”. It has the meaning of ‘Originator’. We Trinitarians have no problems with this.

    “God in the form of Jesus can manifest himself to many people all at once, He is not limited by space or location.”
    If you mean, in UPC thought, Jesus manifesting himself at different times as Father, Son, Holy Spirit, then no. Genesis 1:26 “Let Us make man in Our image” was communicated within the Godhead.

    “He can manifest himself in as many ways He like all at the same time, like the Holy Spirit which dwells in us.”
    The Holy Spirit is not a manifestation like some sort of tool. He is a Person (Acts 5:1-4)

    “He cannot be restricted by how man perceive Him.”
    Exactly. So don’t restrict the Godhead to your form of thinking.

    “God is One supreme being, there is no need for three separate persons”
    What we think we need does not negate His Being.

    There is only one God in essence, who being the Originator of eternity, has always existed and is revealed in three distinct Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    Isaiah 44:6, 8; 45:5; Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 3:16-17; 28:19; 2Corinthians 13:14; Acts 5:3-4

  20. Nedson K. Banda says:

    It is written in Scriptures ” Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness…:” ( Genesis 1 : 26) How do you interpret this text?

  21. Stephen Valenta says:
  22. Jim Hill says:

    A manifestation of something means making visible or the showing of something. To say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three manifestations of God does not convey the level of distinction between the three that is described in scripture. For example, they talk to each other and have distinct wills. That is why the word manifestation is rejected as a description of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

  23. Ron Marcum says:

    the Bible says there are three that bear witness in heaven the Father the spirit and the word and we know the word with Jesus and another place you look it up in the King James version It’s sales Jesus was made in the express image of God and thought it not robbery to be equal to God Jesus said I will go to the father and send you back the comforter the Holy Spirit now if that don’t sound like 3 in heaven who was Jesus talking to when he said father forgive them who talked to Jesus and said this is my beloved Son whom I am well pleased the Father the Son the Holy Ghost Trinity

  24. Mieke Prinsloo says:

    Interesting how humans believe we must understand everything otherwise it’s not true. The Trinity is an expression of Love. Love cannot Love itself, the actual definition of Love is wanting the best for another before yourself. The relationship between the Father, the Son and The Spirit is an expression of Love. I personally believe the trinity debate should not have your faith in the balance… Jesus is the only way, speak to Him about it, as one commenter said ITS A REVELATION… ask to be made aware of the truth.

  25. John Raymond Flores says:

    Oh LORD, here we go again. Take a course on Systematic Theology and find out instead of your human supposedly “ wisdom “

  26. Steve Losee says:

    THE TRINITY

    A. Evidence: it’s Biblically valid

    Jehovah’s Witnesses:
    “3 Gods in 1”
    “Well suited to the Dark Ages which it helped to produce.”

    However:
    Evidence is cumulative.
    Old Testament hints:
    Gen. 1:1 (& others) “Elohim” plural (at least 3?)
    Gen. 1:26 “Us” (pl) ) “Image”(Sing) “Our”(pl”) “Likeness”( Sing)
    Gen. 11:7
    Gen. 18:1-3
    Gen. 19:24
    Num. 6:24-26
    Deut. 6:4,5 (re Gen. 2:24)
    Ps. 33:6 (“word…LORD…breath (Spirit)”)
    Ps. 50:1 (“El, Elohim, YHWH”)
    Isa. 6:3
    Isa. 43:11 (hidden): “I, I, I AM” (3 “I”s)
    Isa. 48:16,17 (vs. 12 ref. Rev. 1:17,18)
    Isa. 6017; 61:1,2
    Dan. 2:47

    New Testament Statements:
    Matt. 3:16,17
    Matt. 17: 1-8 (Transfiguration)
    Matt. 28:19 (“Name” sing.)
    Luke 1:35
    Luke 9:28-36 (Transfiguration)
    Acts 10:38
    Rom. 15:15,16
    I Cor. 12:4-6
    II Cor. 13:14
    Gal. 4:6
    Eph. 2:13, 18
    I Pet. 1:2
    I Pet. 3:18 (NAS margin & NIV)
    I John 4:13,14
    I John 2:4; 5:7 (KJV & NKJV; I believe it belongs)

    B. “Understanding”: it’s scientifically valid

    Humanity in the Image of God:
    Gen. 1:27
    Gen. 2:7
    “Breath” = “spirit” (same word “ruach”; also “wind”)
    body = from dust
    man a living soul (nephesh” Heb; “psuche” Gk) (KJV; NAS margin)

    spirit = worship, revelation, conscience
    soul = mind, emotions, will
    body = flesh, blood, bones

    Distinction between soul & spirit:
    I Thess. 5:23
    Heb. 4:12
    hence the rror of psychology and psychchiatry…and especially psychics!

    Christ, in Incarnate One, is the obvious equivalent of “body”
    Holy Spirit is also obvious
    The Father as the “Soul” of the Trinity:
    Mark 13:32 mind
    John 6:38-40 will
    John 16:26,27 emotions

    Rom. 1:20
    If this verse is true, we should find a true tri-unity in the physical universe.
    Egg (shell, white, yolk)
    Shamrock (3 leaves)
    Water (h2o; 2 parts hydrogen, 1 part oxygen)
    “water, ice & steam”
    atom: neutron, proton, nucleus
    triangle
    human
    All of the above are imperfect pictures.

    However:

    We live in a tri-une universe.
    1. space
    2. time
    3. matter
    Take away any one, and the universe would cease as we know it.

    Gen. 1:1
    “the beginning” –time
    “heavens” – shamayim (pl) stretched out expanses or “space:”
    “earth” eretz; substance from which things are formed, i.e. “matter”

    J.W. tract title: “1+1+1=1?”
    HOWEVER:
    Space = length, height, width
    Time = past, present, future
    Matter = liquid, solid, gas (not enough proof for “plasma”)
    Volume of room: L X H X W or 1x1x1= 1!

  27. Piyush Lazarus says:

    We cannot completely understand Trinity in our dimensions. We are living in limited dimensions. Our dimensions are not limited before Adam and Eve had that fruit..but later satan stucked us in limited dimensions. To understand how three in one power of God works we have to die..God is not in limited dimensions and we cannot ever understand Him completely because He is our creator..
    Like we can say god of computer..creator of computer programmed it and not in it but work from outside.

  28. Madison Willoughby says:

    Do you realize you just described God as three separate beings in your own OP while claiming there is no such thing? If God does not express Himself in three different manners then why did He refer to Himself with plural pronouns in Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 and document that all three were present at Creation (Genesis 1:2/ John 1:1-4/ Colossians 1:15-17)?

  29. Zonuna Vanchhong says:

    Acts 7:56

    “And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God”

    How about this Bible verse

  30. Jason Edward Miller says:

    For God is love in divine essence it is fitting that God subsist in persons as a community since love is willing the good for the other. And it starts in how the Son is the Word and was both with God the Father and is God as more than implied in John 1:1. This is a short, worthwhile video that makes a compelling case for Jesus being divine yet a separate person. https://youtu.be/iXDt8WHSPhU

  31. Lawrence Apitz says:

    The father loves the Son, the son loves the father in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. God is love, God has to have someone to love.

  32. Micki Shilvock says:

    Jesus speaking in The Old Testament:

    Isaiah 48:16

    “Come near to me and hear this: “From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there am I.” Now the Lord Yahweh has sent me, with his Spirit.

  33. William Clark says:

    Matthew 3:16 and 17 is 1 part where all three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are directly observed and heard at the same time.

  34. David Ball says:

    Trinity is Three Persons, One Essence

  35. David Ball says:

    God is One

  36. David Ball says:

    “Hear, O Israel: the LORD is our God, the LORD is One.”

  37. David Ball says:

    Christ is Risen! Truly He is Risen!

  38. Busayo Grill says:
  39. Ruby Sweetie says:

    Is it right to call The Holy Spirit as “which”

  40. Rizaldy S. Menor says:

    Confused is this person. Dangerous religion he is in. Cherry picking verses is their way.

  41. Tony Hollis says:

    What rubbish. Read John 14-17. Many times it says how the father told the son to do things. They are three separate entities. There is a heirarchy: father, son, holy spirit.

  42. Daniel Marvin says:

    OP: How did you arrive at this conclusion: “The Creator does not exist within the created universe and cannot be restricted by it.”? IF God is truly sovereign, and He wanted to experience being human — are you saying He cannot do that?

  43. Lawrence Apitz says:

    in him we live and move and have our being.

  44. Adam Daniel Broughton says:

    Jesus did not rebuke those who worshiped him. If he and God were not of the same essence, he would have. We baptize in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit, which is another way of saying we baptize in the name of God, while acknowledging all three persons of the God head.

  45. Sammy Milgate says:

    Are you a JW or something?

  46. Stephanie Meaza says:

    The Trinity is:
    Three United persons:
    Without separate existence :
    So completely united as to form one God:
    The divine nature subsists in three distinctions
    Father:
    Son:
    Holy Spirit:

  47. Claudette Renee says:

    one must read the Bible for meaning. The Trinity is everywhere expressed without using the term “Trinity”.

  48. Thomas Lloyd says:

    So prior to the gospels the Jews knew it as the Godhead, the Father, and the spirit/Angel of the Lord.

    (Not to be confused with the false belief of Michael and Jesus being the same, they are not. As Michael is a created being and Jesus is the word, that in the beginning was the word and it was with God and it was God.)

    After Christ came as a man, we learned that the Father and the son are one directly. Notice before Jesus ascended after the ressurection he said that if he stayed, that the spirit would not come to them. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all 1, yet they are all unique to one another.

    1 What, 3 Whos

  49. Markus Ramchiary says:

    I’ve got you. Jesus sat at the right hand of God the Father, answer this. People ask Did Jesus claimed Himself God? The answer is Jesus never forbade anyone from worshipping Him though angels did. You lack the manageral skill, you’re limited to the text Brother. When somebody asks you What’s your name do you say like the question my name is this, or you say, hi I’m this, nice to meet you. Means you don’t have to be slave to the text.

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