Sincere question from the newly dubbed “rebel” in here. Is free will negated once you’re saved? If 1 saved always saved is true, then we don’t have to comply with God’s will or follow His principles or even worship Him because I’ve got the “card” with grace and mercy all over it in my hand, right? At least if 1 saved always saved is true. Yes, I’m the believer that asks the difficult questions and I’ve even been told that I’m Catholic because I focused on the other 11 disciples who stood in silence when Simon Peter responded with “Thou Art the Christ, the son of the living God” after Jesus asked, “Who do you say that I am?” I have questions that many don’t want asked and don’t even like to hear. If you’re one of those people, feel free to continue to scroll. This IS apologetics and last I checked, questions (including the tough ones and I think ESPECIALLY the tough ones have a right to be addressed and even with respect and compassion even if someone in here lack that or refuse to call on it.
Discussion
29 comments
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A TRUE believer, who has been TRULY saved will do God’s will, will continue to worship Him, will obey Him. You will want to,, because God has been placed in your soul, your heart and your mind.
Reborn, meaning you are a new creature!
Salvation and grace are NOT a pass to do as you please. Anyone who reads the Bible and truly understands, understands that! -
Actually you can’t please God until you are saved. Therefore only Christians have true free will. The relationship is a love relationship so it is true Christians sin but it is the nature of the relationship to restore intimacy. The lost can only please the flesh nothing done outside of Christ is of lasting value. So a tree is ultimately known by its fruit.
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If once saved, always saved is true – do you think that Christ set you free from sin, so that you can sin with license?
Absolutely not.
The result of being Born Again is that you will have new motives toward doing right. Also, because you are adopted as a child of God, then Father God will discipline you if you do choose to sin.
Additionally, we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit who indwells us.
Also – if you understand the cross and the true impact of sin, which is blood and victimization and death, then why you desire to choose to sin, and thus hurt yourself and the others around you? Driving people away from God, too.
Now, I also believe that one of the maximum disciplines that God can give to a rebellious christian is to end their life on earth right away, rather than let them continue to grieve the Spirit and harm others.
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Being saved amd forgiven of sin is not a license to sin. It’s one thing to unintentionally sin as a Christian but it’s another to purposefully and blatantly sin while saying “well Jesus will forgive me anyway so it’s all good”, no it ain’t all good! If a professed Christian continues to live in sin with no thoughts of turning from it all that means is that professed Christian never had a real conversion, never had a true indwelling of the Holy Spirit, therefore was not actually saved and not a real Christian.
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Greetings brother, and blessings in Christ.
Free will is never negated. A correct understanding of “Once Saved Always Saved” (better referred to as Eternal Security) solves this problem.
Free will is about the ability to make conscious choices without external constraints. We can choose how we act in any given situation. This is never absolute. It is limited by things like physics (you cannot choose to sprout wings and fly to Mars), and knowledge (you cannot choose to make a computer if you don’t know technology). A strong factor in these choices is also our desire. We cannot choose our desires. This is important. If I like apples, there’s nothing I can do about it. If I don’t, there’s also nothing I can do about it. But whether I like them or not, I can choose whether or not to eat any apple I have access to.
The thing about salvation is that it requires something irreversible: genuine faith. Faith that might be injured, but never fatally harmed. It IS possible to have sincere, though false faith. The devil knows Jesus, the devil also HATES Jesus. Intellectual assent is nothing. Please note at this point that I am not addressing your own faith.
Anyway, with saving faith comes the Holy Spirit. The Spirit does NOT bridle us. A Christian is always capable of sinning, and indeed, 1 John 1:8-9 tells us that we will always sin, and to say otherwise makes God a liar, and proves we are self deceived. However, the Spirit does act as a conscience, and more importantly, regenerates us gradually over time. The saved person may even go through “mini apostasies”, so to speak. I myself have been through such a time, to the point where I told God I was angry with Him. However, because I love Him, I returned and repented.
Now, consider this: I love my mother. As a result, though I am capable of disobeying, and even dishonouring her, it is repugnant to me to do so. The very idea of upsetting her is repulsive. Thus, even if she makes a simple request, like “please make me a cup of tea”, I will do so. Nothing but my own will compels me, but because I love her, I do so anyway. Similarly, the saved will become increasingly opposed to sin. Sin upsets God, righteousness pleases Him. Even where there are conflicts (and inthis life, there WILL be conflicts), the saved will feel torn at worst. We will STRUGGLE with sin, not just dive into it without care that God hates it.
Thus, free will is unaffected when we get saved, but our hearts are. We mature in faith, and as a result, sin becomes more repulsive, and righteousness becomes our desire. This is something we can never completely lose, because it’s impossible for true love to die.
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Read Romans 6 if you are seeking truth on this topic.
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I think everything you comment or post for now on needs to be in all caps. That would be what a true Rebel would do.
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Free will is never negated. In any time person can choose sin over God. If you are saved you will seek to do the will of God and follow Him. This dues not mean you what’s will succeed. And no it’s not a get out of jail free card. If you are saved you should not want to sin. Or should feel convicted fur doing so
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Once saved, always saved, but the attitude that you are conveying shows that that person was never saved, we can judge them by their fruits.
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Who said we ever had free will?
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Free Will is not of God’s doing. We desire as he desires. To go to church your will or God’s?
Our decision or his decision.
To weigh both of them out. We don’t stand good by ourselves -
Once saved always saved is not for those who think saying some prayer will get them into heaven and they can live as they please before they die. Once saved always saved refers only to those who truly believe in their heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and rose from the dead that we might have eternal life. To believe salvation is for yourself is to actively live a life displaying that belief. For instance, those who are vegetarians are so because of something they believe. They aren’t vegetarian only some of the time. That doesn’t make sense. If someone claims to be a vegetarian yet you see them chowing on a BigMac, what would you think? You would think they don’t believe what they claim to follow. So, once saved always saved is when a person is sealed by the Holy Spirit because their heart is pure before God, believing, confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord. The word of God says, “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24, nkjv)
Therefore merely saying you have faith means nothing. True faith resides in the heart and manifests through works. Those who are truly saved, are not bound by the love of God but liberated and compelled to show His love. It’s not a list of things we have to do and what we can’t do. It’s all about what we want to do to honor God because we understand how good He is. That being said….sin is a choice. God tells us He will always provide a way out from temptation. Anyone who says they HAVE to sin (for whatever reason they use to justify their behavior) is lying. God does give us a choice. It is our free will to choose Him or not. Though He is ALL-KNOWING, we aren’t. The choice is ours, while His grace and mercy cover us when it doesn’t have to. -
What part of eternal don’t you understand
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If you are saved God transforms you. You’ll want to follow Him. If you just continue in sin without conviction, I’d have to question your salvation.
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Hebrews 5:9 = Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him. We know in Jesus’ ministry that he fulfilled and extended Mosaic Law on his own authority as part of the New Covenant.
Romans 12:2 = We are to use our free will to not conform to the ways of this world. In our salvation, we are proclaimed holy by God, and in this holiness we are transformed in that our actions align with God’s Will.
1 Peter 2:9 = We live a life of obedience to glorify the majesty of our savior. While we still maintain free will, we know we are not our own. Christians no longer pursue their own will, but instead submit to God’s Will out of reverent love for our Father.
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If this is how God says we are Romans 3 vs 10-12 , AND if it is all of God Ezekiel 36 vs 25-27, AND if 1 Corinthians 2 vs 7-16 tells us this AND if Ephesians 2 vs 8 is emphatic about where and Who gives us faith, then clearly we are totally dead / incapable of ‘choosing God’, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit regeneration in our hearts first that then leads to salvation, if you put yourself anywhere in this equation then you/we deliberately elevating ourselves and are therefore robbing God of His Sovereignty which then makes you what????
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William (Clark) I have put all the scriptures in for you to look up as you started off your post by saying that your question was a “sincere question” so I assumed your heart would be eager to read these scriptures for yourself ?
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I would distinguish between descriptive and normative: descriptively, even when you have been saved, are able to anything within your power, which may be in accordance with or in opposition to God’s will. Normatively, you are not supposed to do those things which are opposed to the gospel. Being saved and receiving the holy spirit will make you more likely *be* – as opposed to *do* – the latter, which transforms your will. So in a sense, your capacity to do things has not been hindered, but your appetite for those things pertaining to God has changed.
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I have not yet read the other responses so please forgive me if this has already been stated. I do believe once saved always saved, BUT what you posted is not having been saved in the first place. Like Paul said in the beginning of Romans chapter 6 how can we that are dead to sin live anymore in it. If a persons constant want is to not serve God or live in grease instead of in grace then that person never had a moment with Jesus. They never were saved. They would have gone to hell even right after “saying the prayer” if they would have died. Because all the prayer is about is an acknowledgement of wanting a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. Like James said Faith without works is dead. The works isn’t what opens the door the faith does that. But the works shows the faith.
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When people use “sincere” or ” to be honest” a red flag goes up in my mind. It is normally taken as read that the statement or question being posed is honest and and sincere. So why emphasize it? My experience then is to treat it with suspicion.
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We always have free will. It wouldn’t be love otherwise. God warns us of sin because like any good father he doesn’t want to see his children get hurt. Sin has consequences. It brings shame, guilt and separation. What was the first thing Adam and Eve did when God called them in the garden immediately after they had sinned? They hid from God. We do the same. So he warns us because he loves us.
Questions are good as long as the heart is right. -
First, who called you a rebel? After seeing your posts, rebel is definitely not the word I would use to describe you. Second, from what I’ve seen so far, you aren’t asking tough questions, you’re just poorly summarizing what you feel I’d the opposing argument. Third, I don’t get why people would call you Catholic for focusing on the other 11 disciples when Peter calls Jesus the Christ.
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Your question is unclear. Are you asking a theological question regarding the “Perseverance of the saints”? Or are you asking a philosophical question about the ability of the human will?
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The statement once saved always saved is contentious from other other quarters. These thoughts play up in my mind.
1) Freewill where it came from? Adam and Eve were tempted and decided to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Since then men are faced with choices.
2) Conscience. Where is it rooted? Jesus left not without leaving behind the Holy Spirit to indwell in Man, etch God’s word and love in man’s heart.
3) We’re Children of God. We hear God’s goodness proclaimed. Get baptized. We believe, call on Him, obey, persevere, pursue to gain gifts, and pursue practice faith, hope and love according to God’s tenets.
5) The promise, that we will receive eternal reward after passing judgement.
What will be his one question on judgement day? -
If once saved always saved is true, all free will is negated – not even Eve had true free will when she bit the fruit. The whole concept of a sinful nature becomes pointless when even the only “sinful free choice” wasn’t free either.
Personally, I believe free will to be an innate matter of being made in the image of God – nothing made in his image can resemble a robot. People use all their Greek-style logic to infer that because God knows all that therefore he determines every decision in advance. But they forget that He is also gentle and humble. Even though he *can* determine all things does not necessitate that he does or will. In humility he grants us our capacity for free will.
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This has been repeatedly asked.
Scroll past posts please -
One must know how to “examine the Scriptures.” Rather than accept every teaching, discerning Christians diligently study the Scriptures. Then they know what the Bible says and therefore can “test all things and hold fast to what is true.” In order to do this, a Christian must “be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). The Word of God is to be “a lamp” and “a light” to our path (Psalm 119:105). We must let its light shine on the teachings and doctrines of the day; the Bible alone is the standard by which all truth must be judged.
Grace be upon you beloved, in Jesus name.
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If they accepted Christ but still do sin, lets say not on purpose, but they dont even try to meet God’s will. Did they really accepted Christ with all their heart and soul or just accepted Christ by words and emotions?
They didnt follow. Because the proof of salvation is obedience. The bible says in Matthew 10:38
Whoever does not follow His ways doesnt deserve Him.
We must replace out current life with eternal life obedient to Christ. -
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