All #ourCOG News 5.0
Arminians, how can a believer loose salvation? When can everlasting life be limited? I wonder.
Discussion
51 comments
-
Salvation is in Christ, Eternal life is in Christ, remain in Christ and you can’t. Noah was saved whilst he was in the boat but if he stepped out he would of drowned – remain in Christ and it’s all good. But walk away from Christ and live a life of sin, sin dose not save in separates from Christ, salvation and eternal life – it’s about relationship. If we walk in the light as He is in the light the blood of Jesus Christ Gods son cleanses is from all sin.
-
Salvation is God’s sovereign work. Nothing can separate the redeemed from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
-
who are the non-arminians in this thread?
-
Once you have accepted Christ as your saviour, you are saved forever- we can’t lose our salvation.
-
We can’t lose salvation. Calvinists who claim that we can, are saying that we can do something to be saved or stay saved. They will use philosophy to argue that they don’t, but what they say is not found in the Bible.
-
I do not consider myself to be either Calvinist or Armenian The bible I use KJV has verses supporting lose of salvation in terms of parallel parables.
Rom_11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom_11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?Salvation is for sure everlasting life.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
For those that believe.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Would you agree His disciples claimed salvation until they heard what they must do and then rejected it? Are they still, or were they never saved?
I think salvation is everlasting if you have it. Unless you reject it. Why would someone reject it? I cannot answer that but the bible does.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.So I would say everlasting life cannot be limited but salvation can either be lost or failed to be obtained by rejection of the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I also think salvation may be lost at that moment when one might hear these dreaded words “depart from me ye that work iniquity.” For those that pretended they were doing righteousness.
Mat_7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Don’t take my word for it I am just a man working out my own salvation convinced in my own mind of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
-
if a person can lose lose or reverse what God does, then He isn’t sovereign or omnipotent. The word of God says it’s His responsibility to save us and it’s His responsibility to keep us saved. Jesus said nobody could take us out of His hands or the Father’s. Eternal security is either true or the word of God is a lie and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all liars. I know many believers who believe the latter
-
Idk, my salvation is pretty tight.
-
Once saved always saved is not biblical.
-
You lose it by going away from christ and sinning without repentance. Salvation is conditional. This old debate is getting boring
-
A believer cannot lose their salvation. Yet a believer who falls away from faith and becomes a disbeliever doesn’t have salvation.
-
God The Father has chosen us through no merit of us but based on His Choice. John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. -
Armenians land on two different sides here, but neither side believes you can *lose your salvation.
Many believe in eternal security of the believer, while others believe you can forfeit (give up) your salvation by becoming apostate.
As far as eternal life is concerned none of us technically have eternal life yet. That should be obvious because we die. We will be given our gift laid up in the heavens after the resurrection of the dead.
-
Im not trying to brag(but maybe I am bragging). Im so glad I dont know Calvinism from Armenians from Flintstone. I know Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
-
The “everlasting life” will keep being “everlasting” even if one loses it.
-
Salvation can be lost if accept the mark of the beast.
-
As an Arminian (Wesleyan) I believe that God does not override our will. Free will is a necessary prerequisite to be able to “Love the LORD.” Since love that is forced is not love at all, it must be freely given.
Anything freely given can be freely withdrawn.
God calls to EVERYONE. The Scripture says that He is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. Even after all He has done, some will not come… God does not get what He wants in all of this. This is because love must be freely given. That is the point in the Westminster Confession that breaks it… the Westminster Confession insists that God is sovereign over all that happens, yet is somehow not responsible for sin, and also does “no violence to the will of creatures.” It’s like saying “that bachelor is married to her.” It is senseless.
We can reject God. I have seen it many times. Often, people don’t even leave the church… they keep coming, they just stop believing.
-
I see alot of claims that u can “lose” ur salvation but hardly anyone posting scriptures to prove that.
-
You are free to choose. It is a horrible thought that by some decree you are sent to hell… Calvinism is frightful
-
A believer loses salvation when he/stops believing/ being a believer
-
You can’t. Once you are saved you are a new creature in Christ, all thing have been made new (2 Corinthians 5:17). You don’t become new and then go back to the old. Sin has been defeated at the cross and to return to sin (the place) see Romans 5 &6, would mean that what Jesus did wasn’t enough.
-
Verses like let him go he was never of us
And
Depart from me I never knew you
Tells us that you don’t lose your salvation you were never saved in the first place. -
Because of our sinful nature, the only decision humans are able to make unfortunately is against God. Our faith is formed through God’s word piercing through our sinful hearts. Thankful for my baptism, where God claimed me with the promises of his word! I can trust in His promises to remain confident in my salvation.
-
Mathew 18 verse 21 – 35
The revoking of God’s genuine forgiveness to those who refuse to forgive their brethren.Romans 11 v 19 – 22
Goodness of God towards believers who continue in his goodness otherwise God cuts them offStark warnings to those who think they can lives as they like after they have come to Christ..
-
Anthony R. Vacanti could not agree more with what you have written , same things as me if you look back on my posts , these are stark warnings to believers not unbelievers , one thing that the word of God does not promote is complacency, Hebrews 2 v 3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation
-
No power or any force can move us from the hand of God. But the bible is clear, except because of our free will, we ourselves if we go back to our old self, then we might fall in the hand of God. God is crystal clear when the bible said that our sins is separating us from God.
-
“lose salvation” is an oxymoron. Salvation is being saved from hell. So if you can lose it, it’s not salvation and you’re not saved from hell.
-
Salvation can not be lost for true bellievers. John 10:
10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. -
Are you a calvinist looking for a fight, or are you truly seeking answers?
-
Revelation 3:5
5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
Can we really blot something not written?
-
Just like you chose to follow Christ, you can choose to walk away from Him too. Isn’t that free will?
-
Yep they don’t understand what “eternal” means, if they can loose their salvation they already have
-
If you keep on sinning and don’t repent them then there is a possibility that your salvation will be taken away from you.
many are profesying they’re Christian but aren’t living in the truth.
-
What kind of death does one have before salvation – is it not eternal (I wonder)? Please resond.
1 Cor. 15.1 I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Cor. 9. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
John 15. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Heb. 3. 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, … 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. 4. 1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. … Heb. 4. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Ezek. 33. 12 ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to [he shall not] live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’
Rom. 11. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Matthew 5:13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
Matthew 18. 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Luke 8. 13 [parable of sower] Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Heb. 2 . 1 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?
Heb. 6. 11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12 We do not want you to become sluggish, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. [if fall away – impossible to renew (6.6) The hope is entering His presence (6.19)]
Hebrews 10. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” [v.39 – “draws back to perdition” (utter destruction)]
1 Tim. 3. 6 [A bishop] must not be a novice (recent convert), lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
2 Tim. 2. 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
2 Peter 1. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
James 5.19-20 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
1 John 2. 24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. … just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Revelation 16.15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
Rev. 22.19 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
-
A believer never lost their Salvation
-
Any one who said, he does no sin, is a lair
-
You can’t lose your salvation
-
If you think you or someone else “lost” it then you or they were never of it.
-
A man CANNOT LOSE his salvation..period. IT IS NOT a 50/50 work of God at salvation. It is a complete work of God through Christ which is sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of “His return”. Jesus said “No one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand” (John 10:29) “Paul said “there is nothing that can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord”
(Romans 8:38-39).
If a man loses his salvation, then that man is not saved in the first place. God chose His own from the foundation of the world and how could he loses them again.God at salvation is not weak..to save people and to lose them again after sometimes..It is important for us to be certain and to be sure that we are saved and have the assurance of salvation because that will determine our eternity. Thanks ….GB -
Salvation is a result of making a choice to accept God’s free gift. God never takes that choice from us, we are always free to reject His gift to be free from sin. If we choose to go our own way and disobey God we choose to sin and death. As long as we live we must choose Christ and crusify self. Paul said I die daily, it is a continual choice to be justified.
-
All of these people professed to be believers———What a bout Judas, he cast out devils and healed the sock as did the other disciples ???? Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and
>> I will not BLOT OUT HIS NAME out of the book of life,<<< but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Psalm 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness . 28 Let them be BLOTTED out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. 29 But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high. Psalm 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. 13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. 14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
-
The only way a person could lost salvation is to be the savior of ones self, that’s just an example of Arminians or semi peligian’s greatest theological flaws, the non secured salvation or losing your salvation , Salvation is the result of being Justified by faith alone, In Christ alone, by Grace alone, base on Scripture alone, to the Glory of God alone.
-
If one cannot lose one’s salvation how do we make sense of the parable of the sower and the seeds? – some of the seeds were sown in fertile soil – they were saved but then weeds grew up and choked them and they bore no fruit – they lost their salvation
-
What’s an Arminian?
-
Your framing the question.
-
When he refuses to believe, he loses salvation.
-
Armenian believe salvation is not lose but only after you pass in the great white throne judgement.
-
A person can loose salvation, See Heb 6: 4–6. and Heb 10:25–31,
-
I wish every Armanian would share their views here on this question just put here to them.
-
This question can actually be asked to the entire bible believing community rather than just limited to Arminians. Yes, I believe a believer can lose their salvation and have what I believe to be pretty compelling reasons why, but they’re not full proof. Conclude for yourself. Example, Peter was not only 1 of the 12, but he was part of the inner circle. In a conversation, Jesus asked the disciples “Who do you say that I am?” Some said (sheepishly I might add) “some say…….some say”, but none of THOSE disciples even had the courage to make a statement of faith, but only repeated what was going through the rank and file who didn’t know themselves and were only guessing. PETER was the only 1 to step forward in faith and profess “You are the Christ, the son of the living God”. Now SOME believers have stepped forward (after hearing the rest of my perspective) and claimed “well, it wasn’t a true profession of faith”. If that’s the case, then why did Jesus specifically exhort Peter at THAT moment and tell the rest of them that the church would be built on Peter?? Now, Peter stepped forward in faith and made this profession AND he was the disciple to actually step forward and tell Jesus that he (Peter) would NEVER deny Christ, but would go to his death before doing so, YET later that night, Peter himself denied Christ 3 TIMES. This is not some average guy, this is 1 of the inner circle (as believing as you can possibly be) and still rejecting Christ. I’ve had people in this forum tell me that it wasn’t a true rejection of Christ because these same people don’t like the idea of a legitimate example of someone walking away from Christ piercing the vale of their “once saved always saved” and try to “will” verses or motives in place. Fact of the matter is that one of MOST faithful and closest to Christ actually denied Christ 3 times the night of the arrest. So someone CAN lose their salvation if Peter himself is not only capable of denying Christ, but adamantly rejecting even KNOWING Christ. Just my humble, but very compelling opinion on this emotionally charged debate over “once saved always saved”.
-
[…] Arminians, how can a believer loose salvation? When can everlasting… […]
Comments