Can this mean anything other than—God chooses us, we don’t choose him.
We must emphasize God’s grace in saving, not man’s works in choosing. We were called to walk by faith in good works.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10
I think it means that only God knows our heart and whether we have truly chosen Him to be Lord of our lives or if we have just paid it lip service
Context is key. And just to provide a wider perspective…
1 Timothy 2:3–4 (NLT): This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
Boring
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
God’s choice does not eliminate our free will to except or reject him. Our free will does not eliminate God’s sovereignty. Theologians who compartmentalize: (God’s choice) & (Man’s free will) commit heresy! It is not: either/or but both/and.
Freedom of choice to a god makes sense.
What this means is that we have free will but he chooses which one of us by judging our hearts and to see if we are sincere. When I was 11 or 12 years old I got saved but I was a demon child in reality. It wasn’t until later in life I truly love God with all my heart and soul. God chose me the second time because of the sincerity that was in my heart. I knew though importance of him in my life and that is why he is in there now.
Unregenerates/ unbelievers , do NOT Love God are haters of God and are suppressed by the truth and live for the world , backstabbers ,liars , idolatry , murderers , lusting , evil .. etc
serving that master ⤴️
Those who are regenerated/born again, new creatures , are alive in Christ have new desires , They love the Father and the son and are humble, kind , patience, peace, etc doing the Fathers will an committed to serve the King Lord Jesus Christ as their savior,
the other , serve that is True ⤴️
There is ABSOLUTELY NO IN-BETWEEN , you serve one or the other .. so what free will ?
Ephesians 2:1-8 is very clear. We are chosen from among the dead and through no merit or effort of our own God makes us alive in Christ.
There’s no other way to read this.
God has ordained that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth…we are all called to repentance; unfortunately, only a “few” will humble them self and trust in God’s Way, Jesus Christ.
I’m Calvinist-leaning, but this is easily explained by the freewill side.
Yes. Read First part of chapter 1 in Peter and Ephesians. John 6:44. It is pretty clear message of the Gospel.
No one can come without God granting it. Once granted, we must chose to come.
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Romans 2:13
2 times Jesus daid the he chosecthem both times to the 11.
Curiously the whole of the second half of John 6 is about chooding the 11, yet people continue to pretend that these things include other people, including those alive today.
How is it a work to make a choice? What radical dictionary are you using where the definition of work is “make a choice”?
Why is it always and either or debate? I think it’s a both and which tosses out both camps
Did the prophets ask God for the scriptures to write them or did the spirit intervene to chosen ones to write the scriptures??
I take it literally. You can see why that is the safest approach from the twisting of scripture to fit personal interpretation above.
Predestination and Choice are both in scripture. Justification and Sanctification are both in scripture. Eternal security and the responsibility to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in our transformation are both in Scripture. How is this possible? The fact that I cannot wrap my head around it, or explain it proves only one thing. I am not God.
Isaiah 55:8-9
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Bible version is important
“And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”
John 6:65 KJV
“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:44 KJV
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”
John 12:32 KJV
In this passage Jesus is talking about eating his flesh which turned many away. They did not have the spiritual understanding of what he was saying. His death had not yet happened and the holy spirit had not yet come.
The father Grant’s us our ability to understand and accept the holy spirit. God has the control to harden hearts and closes minds if ot serves to promote his purpose. And that doesnt mean those people are destined to eternal hell as He can save them in His time.
I think there’s something wrong with the definition of grace here.
It seems there is a huge jump from grace to election.
In predestination, the key is the second part. God would build a room in His house if you are not coming.
Dane Davenport, You have overllooked, Jn 12: 32, Jesus said if He is lifted up He will draw ALL man to Him. 2 Cor 5: 19. 1 Tim 4: 10. 1 Jn 2: 2 which says Jesus has saved the whole world, and that means Everyone. And as the gospel is preached, those who believe will receive salvation.
This is the point that scripture does not answer explicitly, in my opinion
Is election an individual election or a corporate election?
I can read the verses both ways. From the foundation of the world, God elected certain individuals to come to him.
Or
From the foundation of the world God formed the plan or basis to draw his elect believers to himself. In other words, whosoever believes is the basis.
I don’t think scripture makes that crystal clear, so I’m not going to go to war over it.
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