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Every argument I have come across that the archangel Michael…

6 years ago • May 24, 2020 • by ourCOG
Every argument I have come across that the archangel Michael…

Every argument I have come across that the archangel Michael is not Jesus seems to rely heavily on the straw man that Jesus is not a created angel. But is there anywhere in scripture that says Michael was created or are we just reading that into the word angel, which we know can also mean messenger and is applied to Jesus in Malachi 3:1?

In other words, is there any scriptural reason Michael has to be a created being rather than the third person of the trinity simply assuming a different name.

Edit: so far all of the comments are proving my point. Take away the argument that Jesus is not a literal angel, and there doesn’t seem to be any other good arguments, just condescending insistence on maintaining orthodoxy. Jesus goes by so many other names in the Bible, what’s one more? What if archangel means ultimate messenger, rather than just promoted angel?

Categories: #ourCOG

Discussion

23 comments

  1. Harold Goldman says:
    May 24, 2020 at 5:26 pm

    God didn’t create beings to be 2 different beings. The scripture shows Jesus as the angel of the Lord in the OT. Only Michael and Gabriel are the only 2 angels/messengers that have names. It’s possible they all have names just like the stars but that’s info god didn’t think we needed to know. Jesus was not only the quintessential messenger but prophet,high priest but sacrifice

    Reply
  2. Tom Joseph says:
    May 24, 2020 at 5:27 pm

    If Michael is described as an an “angel”, he is being described as a CREATED being. Of course, God / Jesus has not been created.

    Reply
  3. Harkynyhemi Hollushorlar says:
    May 24, 2020 at 5:28 pm

    When sufficient and useful truth have been revealed to the sons and daughters of God, the extremist still go ahead looking for what is not lost. Jesus is what you’ve known him to be, assuming the position of Michael to him will be degrading, your theological prowess notwithstanding. This thing is gradually spreading. Believers do spend time to major on the minor and thats why we can achieve but little atimes cos we channel our attention to needless things.

    Reply
  4. Felix Gomez says:
    May 24, 2020 at 5:34 pm

    Speaking of Christ

    “Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”
    ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬ https://www.bible.com/bible/1/heb.1.4.kjv

    Reply
  5. J.R. Gilligan says:
    May 24, 2020 at 5:38 pm

    I understand your question. And you are still likely to get some “hateful” responsnes.

    For the record I don’t believe Michael and Jesus are one in the same. And I believe I have come across Biblical evidence that supports that Conclusion. But of course I suffer from old age and can’t remember it.??

    But I remember it is something to the effect of Worship. A christophany ( which means an appearance of Christ in the Bible outside the Gospels)will not deny worship, as it is perfectly acceptable to worship Christ. But somewhere, there is, if I remember correctly, a reference to Micheal refusing worship. Wish I could remember where to find it. But I seem to remember it’s there somewhere.

    Reply
  6. Tom Joseph says:
    May 24, 2020 at 6:20 pm

    If you were able to show that Jesus is the same as Michael, how would that change your Christian walk?

    Reply
  7. Harold Goldman says:
    May 24, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    The scripture you forgetting is let all the angels worship him it’s concerning the son

    Reply
  8. Bob White says:
    May 24, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    Since the Bible lists the names of many of the characters in the Bible, including the “messengers”, by actual names, why would it suddenly throw out that name and replace it with Jesus? Seems incoherent. So let me ask you, other than the “straw man” you set up of the definition of “messenger”, what verses do you have to prove this abhorrent and illogical point?

    Reply
  9. Chris Krumlauf says:
    May 24, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    God created ALL things. If angels existed before creation, they would also be like God.

    Reply
  10. Ryan Wangen says:
    May 24, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    When Michael was contending over the body of Moses with Satan and said, “The Lord rebuke you”, why didn’t he rebuke Satan himself if indeed HE was the Lord Jesus? ?

    Reply
  11. Arthur Adam Haglund says:
    May 24, 2020 at 7:40 pm

    Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    Reply
  12. Harry Price says:
    May 24, 2020 at 8:23 pm

    Jesus is God. Michael is not God. So, they aren’t the same.

    Reply
  13. Linda Ann Wolfenbarger says:
    May 24, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    Jehovah Winesses believe Jesus was just an angel because they deny the trinity and most of the rest of the gospel. An angel, no matter which one, can save anybody. Cults don’t have a Savior, they have to work for their salvation.

    Reply
  14. Slaven Radic says:
    May 24, 2020 at 9:47 pm

    Hebrew chapter 1

    Reply
  15. Corey Matthew says:
    May 24, 2020 at 9:54 pm

    The angelic realm, like humanity, is created. Jesus is God and is eternal. Therefore Jesus cannot be Michael, for Micheal is an archangel.

    Notice in Jude 1:9 Micheal Said “Lord rebuke you“ to satan, not “I rebuke you”

    Reply
  16. Stephen Valenta says:
    May 24, 2020 at 10:13 pm

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭NASB‬‬

    We know the Word was Jesus and that He is God. We know Michael is not God. Therefore he can’t be Jesus.

    Reply
  17. Arthur Adam Haglund says:
    May 24, 2020 at 10:55 pm

    No answer suffice’s a cult member.
    Again, because they have SECRET KNOWLEDGE and non-cult member’s do not HAVE their secret knowledge, thus all non-cult member answers are based on ignorance, and they give themselves permission (as well as normally being commanded by the cult) to ignor anything and everything that does, indeed, prove them wrong.

    Reply
  18. Savenaca Seruvatu says:
    May 25, 2020 at 1:50 am

    Jesus is the Ancient of Days. We humans have been made so much better then the angels. We are Kings, children of the most high God. Heirs to the throne. Michael serves us as we petition God. We say, loosen this on earth Father, and heaven loosens it. We say bind it on earth Father, and Heaven binds it. We are the image of God.

    Reply
  19. Peter Jeans says:
    May 25, 2020 at 6:09 am

    Why not make the same argument for other angels too… Gabriel for instance… or for other beings or creatures too…
    Conversely there are no scriptures that say either of them are the Christ?
    Unless one really wants Michael and a Jesus to be one and the same, I can’t see any compelling evidence to go that direction.

    Reply
  20. Carmelo Cortes says:
    May 25, 2020 at 9:53 am

    Why would the JW make their own Bible with so many verses taken out here and there. Why. Because it doesn’t fit their Cristology.

    Reply
  21. Matthew Ellis says:
    May 25, 2020 at 10:07 am

    John 1:1-18 clearly states that Jesus was part of the Trinity since the beginning.

    Reply
  22. Doug Gillette says:
    May 25, 2020 at 10:21 am

    Jonathan, I hope these will help clear things up for you.

    • Colossians 1:6 says of Christ, “For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things were created through him and for him.”
    In ancient rabbinic writings, the terms thrones, dominions, rulers, and authorities referred to various kinds of angels. So this verse indicates that Christ Himself created all the angels and therefore could not have been the archangel Michael since he is one of the angels Christ created.

    • In Daniel 10:13, Michael is called “one of the chief princes.” He is one among a group of chief princes and not a unique personality.
    But Jesus is unique (John 3:16) and is “King of kings and Lord of lords” and not a mere chief prince (Revelation 19:16).

    • Hebrews 1:5 tells us that no angel can ever be called God’s son. Jesus is the Son of God (John 3:16), so He cannot possibly be the archangel Michael.

    • Hebrews 2:5 says the world is not (and will not be) in subjection to an angel. Christ is repeatedly called the ruler of God’s kingdom (He is King of kings), so He cannot be the archangel Michael (Matthew 2:1-2; 9:35; Luke 1:32-33; Revelation 19:16).

    • Michael does not have the authority to rebuke Satan (Jude 9), but Jesus does (see Matthew 17:18; Mark 9:25), so Jesus cannot be Michael.

    • Finally 1Corinthians 6:3 “Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!” If we are to judge angels, and Jesus is OUR righteous Judge, how can we be the judge of our Judge? Therefore the archangel Michael cannot be Jesus.

    I’ve read most of your replies on this thread, and so far, all you’ve done was draw a conclusion based on word play from a few passages taken out of context. You’re basing your doctrine from poor hermeneutics. You can believe what you want. It’s apparent you want to win an arguement rather than understand truth. But, I would caution you, Jonathan, your poor interpretation and dogmatic insistence can be a stumbling stone to new children in Christ. And it would be better for you if a millstone were tied to your neck and you were cast into the sea then to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

    So, I suggest you move on before you cause yourself and anyone else damage.

    Reply
  23. Every argument I have come across that the archangel Michael… #ourCOG – ourcog says:
    December 21, 2020 at 7:00 am

    […] Every argument I have come across that the archangel Michael… […]

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