Guys, can some explain to me what’s the Calvinist point of view on Predestination and how does it fit with free will and sharing the gospel.
Discussion
30 comments
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They do not believe free will
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Calvinists teach double presdestinate. Lutherans single predestination odf the saved. But the command is to preach the Gospel to all nations since we can’t know before hand who the elect are.
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There is another option than Calvinism and Arminianism. It is Molinism. Since the Bible teaches God’s Sovereignty and man’s Free Will, this version basically teaches although God sovereignly chose a Believer, they still have to Believe. It also teaches eternal security for the Saints. This is a 50,000 foot description of it. Don’t let the fact that this approach is named after a Catholic Jesuit throw your off, he is just the most famous proponent of it. Might be worth considering after you have thoroughly checked out the other two.
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God created a universe where people could reflect the essence of God.
That essence is ‘love’.But one of the realities of love is it must have the option of saying, ‘no’. If that option isn’t there then it’s not love.
The point of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is it gave Adam and Eve a place where they could worship God by having access to the fruit and not eating.
It’s the only way you could show love to an infinite, omnipotent God. You can’t give him anything, you can only show love by self denial. By not eating the fruit.
By denying free will you deny the ability to say ‘no’. Without the ability to say ‘no’ you can’t have love.
Even God cannot change that. It would be like asking if God could make an absolutely random coin that always landed on heads.
That’s a logical impossibility. God doesn’t do logical impossibilities.
God comes to us in His Word and gives us spiritual life. All we can do is reject.
Therefore he gets all the credit if we are saved but we get all the blame if we are lost. -
God’s command and Christian love. Do you know any greater motivation? They can not believe if none one is sent God says through Paul. God commands we speak that truth to other so the hear.
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It doesn’t
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Yes. Easily People are enslaved by sin. Because of this they are incapable of their own to come to God. But God predestined some, meaning that God changed the heart of certain sinners so that they will uncontrollably turn to God. The work of salvation is entirely God’s doing. Because of his mercy, he chose to save some sinners. Without this mercy we would by our own nature always be opposed to God. But God uses his own people 8n which to work his miracle of salvation. So proclaiming the gospel allows us to be a part of his glorious work.
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We are born, enslaved to sin. Not inoccent as the worldly like to think. We inherited Adam’s fallen Image rather than God’s perpfect and with it temporal and eternal death.
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Calvinism teaches that God loves some and hates the rest, which is a false teaching
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Please don’t get your theological knowledge of any system of thought from Facebook but to the hard work and read the books instead. Nearly all of these comments I’ve read so far are either inaccurate or strawmen representations. If you want to know which books to read to gain an accurate view of reformed theology as it relates to soteriology, I would be happy to give you recommendations.
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It doesn’t fit, that’s the point.
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Calvinist point of view on Predestination is God predestine people in heaven and predestine not his people to hell, they call it Double Predestinaton.
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So the Gospel of Predestination taught in the Scripture is that God prefixing his destiny to his people (Ephesians 1:5)
When God says Peter you will deny me 3times before the cock crow, even his will says he wont(Matthew 26:34) it will happen because God knows from the beginning.
So to your Q: how does it fit with free will and sharing the gospel.
Let’s put Jonah for example – God told him to go to Nineveh to preach the Gospel right? His will is against God’s will that’s why he went to other Direction(Jonah 3) so did He successfully Resist God’s will? Nope –
When God purpose you to Preach it will bring to pass, nobody can resist God’s will and Purpose because God knows from the Beginning, His counsel will always stand when he purpose it he will do it.
so Predestination is prefixing destiny to his People and how everything ends from the Beginning here is the proof –
Isaiah 46:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. -
man has a “free” will in the sense that we have a faculty of choosing that remains after the Fall. Every person has the ability to choose what they want. We choose freely every day.
The Bible says that we are dead in trespasses and sin. We choose according to the desires of our heart that are only evil continually. The Fall of man was radical. The Will of man is not indifferent. It has a bias, an inclination, a bent towards sin. Everyone has the free will to make a decision for God, however it is God who changes our heart, regenerates us, makes us born again, so that we will choose Him. The unregenerated man has a sin nature that makes choices, and those choices are aligned with their nature.
Before the Fall we had a free will and we also had liberty (the power to do the right in things of God). After the Fall, we retained the free will (the faculty of choosing), what we lost was our liberty. And only the Holy Spirit can restore the liberty that we lost at the Fall. The Bible teaches that we are fallen creatures who still choose and make decisions, but we make them in the context of our prison of sin. And the only way we can get out of that prison is if God sets us free.
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According to Calvinism, all is predestined by God’s Sovereign perfect secret will – evangelism, prayer, preaching, and apologetics will change nothing; the future is set.
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This is the Westminster Confession of Faith – Chapter 10:
1. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call,a by his Word and Spirit,b out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ;c enlightening their minds, spiritually and savingly, to understand the things of God;d taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh;e renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good,f and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ;g yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.h
a. Rom 8:30; 11:7; Eph 1:10-11. • b. 2 Cor 3:3, 6; 2 Thes 2:13-14. • c. Rom 8:2; Eph 2:1-5; 2 Tim 1:9-10. • d. Acts 26:18; 1 Cor 2:10, 12; Eph 1:17-18. • e. Ezek 36:26. • f. Deut 30:6; Ezek 11:19; 36:27; Phil 2:13. • g. John 6:44-45; Eph 1:19. • h. Psa 110:3; Song 1:4; John 6:37; Rom 6:16-18.
2. This effectual call is of God’s free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man;a who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit,b he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.c
a. Rom 9:11; Eph 2:4-5, 8-9; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:4-5. • b. Rom 8:7; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:5. • c. Ezek 36:27; John 5:25; 6:37.
3. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit,a who worketh when, and where, and how he pleaseth.b So also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.c
a. Luke 18:15-16 and John 3:3, 5 and Acts 2:38-39 and Rom 8:9 and 1 John 5:12 compared together. • b. John 3:8. • c. Acts 4:12; 1 John 5:12.
4. Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word,a and may have some common operations of the Spirit,b yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved:c much less can men, not professing the Christian religion, be saved in any other way whatsoever,be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess;d and to assert and maintain that they may is very pernicious, and to be detested.e
a. Mat 22:14. • b. Mat 7:22; 13:20-21; Heb 6
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Here is Chapter Three of the Westminster Confession of Faith on Free Will and God’s Decree:
1. God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;a yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.c
a. Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. • b. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. • c. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28.
2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,a yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.b
a. 1 Sam 23:11-12; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18.
3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angelsa are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death.b
a. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. • b. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6.
4. These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished.a
a. John 13:18; 2 Tim 2:19.
5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory,a out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;b and all to the praise of his glorious grace.c
a. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. • b. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. • c. Eph 1:6, 12.
6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, fore-ordained all the means thereunto.a Wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,b are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,c and kept by his power through faith unto salvation.d Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.e
a. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. • b. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. • c. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. • d. 1 Pet 1:5. • e. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19.
7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.a
a. Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.
8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,a that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.b So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;c and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.d
a. Deut 29:29; Rom 9:20. • b. 2 Pet 1:10. • c. Rom 11:33; Eph 1:6. • d. Luke 10:20; Rom 8:33; 11:5-6, 20; 2 Pet 1:10.
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I think these sections of the Confession pretty much put the nail in the coffin of Arminianism. Unfortunately, they have their verses also.
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Check out Kevin@Beyondthefundamentals he has the best presentations using biblical knowledge debunking Calvinism. Very liberating. And he has some excellent content on this exact question regarding predestination.
Calvinism and scripture never go together.
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if I was a calvinist i would never witness, because it would already be determined ie if they not meant to be saved then they cant anyway so why bother
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This is a really good sermon on it. Predestination and election are biblical.
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Calvinism is Satan’s teaching to mix-up and sidetrack the salvation message. Calvinism says you can’t believe when God says you can and must if your to be saved. Just imagine now how many Calvinists there are in hell, saying,” but my pastor said I was to spiritually dead to believe!” Calvinism is one of the greatest lies of the devil, who sends it’s followers to hell. There is NO way that Calvinism fits into free-will or Grace.
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Michael David, there’s a lot of misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the doctrine of predestination. Calvin taught that this doctrine had to be handled with the utmost care because it’s easy to exceed Scripture when thinking about this.
I think the first problem people run into is that they don’t have a biblical understanding of the will. Most Christians would agree that people are enslaved to sin, but when push comes to shove they don’t like to accept the ramifications of what the mat means. People love to sin and choose to do so because they like it. The Bible is clear about this. Gen 6:5(I think)says the desires of the hearts of men are only evil continually. Jer 17:9 says that our hearts are desperately sick. Jesus himself called us evil in Matt 6 I believe. Paul describes us as children of wrath(Eph 2:1 I think) and says that we’re are at enmity with or actively hostile towards God(Rom ?. Of course there are many many more biblical testimonies which affirm this. It’s even more compelling because it’s remarkably consistent with what we see from ourselves and others not to mention historically.
I think the biblical evidence for a will bound to sin is incontrovertible.Another truth we find in Scripture is that God planned the end from the beginning. This is attested to often but Gen 50, Isaiah 46:10, Acts 4:28, Rom 8-11 are specific examples.
I think the main thing you are curious about, correct me if I’m wrong, is the doctrine of election. The Bible often speaks of Christians as the elect or sometimes chosen of God. Eph 1, 1 Pet 2, Rom 8-9, John 6, 10 etc. It’s everywhere. The Bible is clear that God elects those who are in Christ. What does this mean for us as far as moral responsibility? We are accountable for our decisions: we do what we want and God predestined everything without violating our will because He can do that.
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The problem with the 5 point calvinist definition of predestination is that it suggest that God arbitrarily chooses people for heaven or hell.
What the Bible actually says is that until God calls us, and we received a prompt from him, we can’t come to him.
We can’t make the heart choice come to him until he’s calling us spiritually. More so, predestination is talked about alongside foreknowledge. For knowledge is that because God is all knowing and all seeing, he creates us knowing what we will decide, to accept or reject him if he called us. This is not what five-point calvinist teach, but this does work with partial Calvinism. God for knew what we would decide, and chose to pursue us based on that knowledge. We are predestined in the fact that God knew what we would decide when he made us, which indicates that he was in control of it. This fully fulfills that God is sovereign. In a 5-point calvinist eyes, however, this is not enough. They wrongfully believe that God sends people to heaven or hell at a whim, albeit a holy whim, and people are destined for destruction or Paradise for no other reason than God feels like it. The unfortunate part for them is that it is both unbiblical to be a 5-point calvinist and it suggests a uncaring, unloving, unjust God that has made certain people knowing they’re hopeless condition and kept them in the Hopeless condition, because he is sovereign and offered them no way out of it. They somehow have the delusion that he can still be caring loving and just even though they believe all this. It’s basically an intellectual brainwashing of how to read the scripture improperly. It is true that God elects and predestined us, and it is true that we can’t come to God unless He calls us. That much is biblical oh, but it has to be weighed with the same strength of the other scriptures that demand and command us to receive him, believe on him, surrender to him, and choose repentance. 5 point calvinist wrongly think this creates works based repentance oh, but this is all a heart choice, with no actions involved whatsoever. It is simply us responding to his invitation. This is why the doctrine of irresistible Grace is false, because God gives us specific imperatives or commands to make these heart choices and it gives specific punishment listed very clearly if we don’t. So irresistible Grace does not work. Also they are purposely ignoring and taking out of context many verses which say that anyone can be saved that Jesus died for everyone and whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life. This means it is offered to all but God knows that not everyone will accept. More so, the verse that clearly states that God wants no one to perish but that all should come to repentance clearly says that his will is not to send specific people to hell. He has just allowed them to choose hell because ultimately that’s what they would choose anyway. She chose to create them but he knew what they would choose therefore he doesn’t call them. It is not because it is his will to make a bunch of people just to torment them. The God that 5 point calvinist choose to worship does not align with the doctrines they have invented for him specifically limited atonement, meaning that Christ only died for some, and irresistible Grace. -
What has come to be called Calvinism is not any different than reformed theology as taught by most protestant churches, at least those that are orthodox. This theology teaches that man is totally depraved and unable to please God. That those who come to christ are elect, that the atonement is limited to those who believe, that God’s grace cannot be resisted and that God helps the believer to persevere to the end of his or her life. These are referred to as the doctrines of grace and are derived not from Calvin but the scriptures. I would recommend you watch YouTube videos of RC Sproul to get some exposure to this theology.
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Skip all the blather, read the institute’s, or the canons of Dort. Westminster confession.
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Calvinist has predestined themselves to go to hell along with John Calvin.
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AMEN!!! You read your Bible! Praise God for you and for making that statement! May it wake a Calvinist up before they end up in hell!
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No one can really understand this topic completely. We aren’t capable of understanding an almighty God and His ways in our humaness.God chose us from before the foundation of the world. He knew then who would accept Him and who would not with our free will. In His patience He is letting it all play out until He returns for His Church. No one can fully wrap their minds around that, we accept it by faith.
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