Let’s assume for a minute that everyone agrees on eternal election—God’s gracious choosing of selected individuals to be His sons and daughters for the rest of Eternity; while allowing his justice to fall on the non-elect.
My question is, of the non-elect, was it God’s will or the will of the parents that caused this child to be born?
Didn’t realize this was a calvinist page…
Lol. His “justice.” That’s funny.
Hey I’m going to manufacture and engineer the circumstances for your eternal damnation, but you deserve it.
A child doesn’t have to be taught to lie, but they will. A child doesn’t have to be taught to be self centered, but they will be. A child doesn’t have to be taught to be mean to another child, but they will. Why? What is the biblical explanation for this?
But those who embraced him and took hold of his name were given authority to become the children of God! He was not born by the joining of human parents or from natural means, or by a man’s desire, but he was born of God.
John 1:12-13 TPT
The only way people come to me is by the Father who sent me—he pulls on their hearts to embrace me. And those who are drawn to me, I will certainly raise them up in the last day.”
John 6.44 TPT
Well to answer your question and not rant about providence of God like everyone seems to be doing. Doesn’t God open and close the womb? Didn’t pharaoh become born through God’s will that he fulfilled according to Romans 9? Children are brought into this world only through our creator. Psalms 139 makes that clear. I don’t think God takes joy out of foreknowing someone will not be elected but does that mean he doesn’t give them life to fulfill his purpose for them. Remember even the unelect have a purpose.
As a Molinist, I also affirm election and predestination and to answer the question from my perspective, while the parents are the one who “worked” to conceive the child, it is God’s providence who sets the circumstances for these 2 people (the parents) to meet. So to sum it up, it is still God who gets to decide who will be born in this world
There is a difference between foreknowledge and predestination. God has foreknowledge. He wants everyone to be righteous. We can accept or reject by free will. If there is no free will, it makes no sense.
Here it is plainly in the bible
1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:12
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
I wonder how Abraham and Sarah would reply? ?
I don’t see eternal selection being biblical. I mean there are times that God will leave a certain nation or people to their sin and reach judgment on them, however God never elects in the sense of saying he wants this person and not that person. Also eternal election takes away the culpability of the sinner. They can’t be blamed for their sinning because if they are the non elect they may as well sin all they want because this life is all they’ll have anyway. But hypothetically I don’t believe God has accidents so anyone here is meant to be here by God’s will
Lord said man can do nothing without me(John 15:5). No parents plan to have baby how when and where or why . It is all his plan under the stewardship of parents and wished all are saved not Parish.
Basically what you are asking is; is God a tyrant that made us to be robots ?….
The breath of life comes from God, right? A soul can’t accidentally manifest itself into existence. Everything that comes into being goes through God first. So every human life is willed into existence by God.
Understanding this, we must also consider that God knows the beginning from the end. He knows every life He is going to will into existence from eternity-past, before He ever actualizes it.
This foreknowledge also applies to salvation, though, right? If The Holy Spirit is going to reveal Himself to you one day, He already knew that He would do that from eternity-past. Choosing to act on you by revealing Himself and entering your heart & mind.
Choosing to act (a choice) is the definition of election.
Electing to reveal Himself to you.
And, He knows what He will elect to do way in advance.. technically being predestined.
So predestined election doesn’t mean that we are all robots. It simply means that God knows in advance what He’s going to choose to do in our lives.
That’s how I understand it, at least.
And my question to you would be if a child is born out of a rape incident was it Gods will or the will of the parent
To me it’s God’s will.No rapist or the victim wills to bring a human life,that’s for sure.
God’s, plain and simple, from the wording of the question.
Both
Just remember brother Dane Davenport God not only ordained your life but also every event of it. David says
“My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.”
Psalms 139:15-16
God’s will. Many women have prayed that God open the womb, and many times God closes the womb.
Every human is made by God, knitted in the womb as psalm 139 tells us
No God–no life.
“who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” John 1:13. The implication is that, unlike the second birth, the first birth is by the will of man according to the flesh.
Both. God can work his will through man’s will. Life is a free and gracious gift. A chance to come to God.
Both
God’s will. He’s absolute and there’s nothing we can do about it.
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