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Why We Should Trust the Gospel Writers. New VIDEO is up!
Discussion
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Papias and Polycarp converts of the apostle John said the apostles wrote the gospels and the majority of all the scholars for 1800 years believed this position called the traditional position. Papias and Polycarp said so. They were converts of the apostle John with evidence outside the Bible.
External evidence.
In His 5 books, Papias said “ he heard the voice of John”.
He would have direct knowledge as to who wrote those books from John the apostle.
Irenaeus uses the fragments about Papias and affirm that Papias knew John the apostle (Shanks288-291).
History of the Church 3:39:4[Papias Wrote] “…If, then, any one came, who had been a follower of the elders, I questioned him in regard to the words of the elders,-what Andrew or what Peter said, or what was said by Philip, or by Thomas, or by James, or by John, or by Matthew, or by any other of the disciples of the Lord,
Notice the past tense. What they had said” clearly the apostles were dead and he wanted to hear from the elders that knew them personally.
Now noticed the present tense when it comes time to hearing the living abiding voice.”….and what things Aristion and the presbyter John, the disciples of the Lord, say. For I did not think that what was to be gotten from the books would profit me as much as what came from the living and abiding voice.”
Clearly John was alive and was described as an elder just like the Bible says.Again a letter to Bishop Florinus makes it very clear that he was a companion to Polycarp and he knew him quite well.
“For, while I was yet a boy, I saw thee in Lower Asia with Polycarp, distinguishing thyself….. so that I can even describe the place where the blessed Polycarp used to sit and discourse-his going out, too, and his coming in-his general mode of life and personal appearance, together with the discourses which he delivered to the people; also how he would speak of his familiar intercourse with John, and with the rest of those who had seen the Lord; and how he would call their words to remembrance. Whatsoever things he had heard from them “
respecting the Lord, both with regard to His miracles and His teaching….”
“In connection with Papias
From “Adv. Haer.”, V, xxxiii, we learn that Papias was “a hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp”.What we can learn.
1. Irenaeus’ pupil of Polycarp gives testimony and plainly states that Papias was a “hearer of John” (Haer. 5.33.4).
2. Eusebius corroborates that after he changed his mind in his book the chronicles.
3. If you don’t believe Papias the convert of John the apostle why don’t you believe Ireneaus the man who knew Polycarp the convert of John the apostle?
4. Papias states plainly that he “learned from the elders” (Hist eccl. 3.39.3). A few sentences later, Papias describes the “words of the elders” as “What Andrew or Peter said, or Philip, or Thomas or James, or John or Matthew or any of the Lord’s disciples, (past tense because the apostles are already dead.)
5. Papias makes it clear he wants to hear the voice of the man that knew the apostles not letters. Why hear the voice and not except letters? “ 2 Thess1:1 Now we beseech you, brethren. 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
6. Papias continues “ and (present tense) whatever Aristion and the elder John, the disciples of the Lord, were saying” (present tense demonstrating John was still alive and he heard his abiding voice. It’s present tense for a reason.) (Hist. eccl. 3.39.4).
7. Papias uses the word “elders” to refer to the apostles. John is called an elder by him and also in in first John.
8. Papias was a colleague and contemporary of Polycarp. Since Polycarp knew John, Papias would have as well.
9. Polycrates, in a letter dealing with the Quartodeciman controversy, also identifies John as the one leaned back on Jesus’ breast and situated him in Ephesus [H.E. 5.24.3].) Polycrates was the pastor of that church at Ephesus where the apostle John was an elder. “These things are attested by Papias, an ancient man who was a hearer of John and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book. For five books have been written by him.”
The very men that took over the apostles churches all confirm the apostle are the Gospel writers.Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, In his ‘Against Heresies’ (3.1.1), Irenaeus writes, “Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter.
Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia.”– Eusebius didn’t think much of Papias as a historian and said that he “seems to have been a man of very small intelligence, to judge from his books” (Church History,book III, chapter 39, paragraph 13). Later in a book called “the Chronicles” he agknowledged that Papias indeed knew John the apostle.
– Irenaeus documented the traditional gospel authorship in his Against Heresies (c. 180).
– Tertullian also lists the four traditional authors in his Against Marcion (c. 208).
– The oldest manuscript labeled “gospel according to Luke” dates from c. 200. It’s labelled the Gospel of Luke.
– The Muratorian fragment, a Latin manuscript a translation of a Greek original from the late second century. It lists 22 books of the New Testament, including the labelled gospels of Luke and John.I think within 100 years with the testimony of Papius by Irenaeus we do well. Yeah, pretty much! We don’t get any biographies of Alexander the great for 400 years until Plutarch collects copies of copies with many missing pages. It’s believable history.
There is zero reason not to believe those two men that corroborate for us the apostles in fact wrote those Gospels.
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We have several eyewitnesses to the apostle John and once we establish that as a fact of history everything else comes to Jesus the promised Messiah
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Many scholars believe the traditional view that the apostles in fact wrote new testament books.
The traditional position. It’s what the majority of all the scholars believe for 1800 years until the falling away predicted by Paul. 2 Thess 2
It’s been the majority of the scholars positions for almost 1850 years.
Professor Bruce Metsker educated Bart Ehrman And he was a Bible believing Christian LOL
Martin Hengel, D A Carson, Craig Bloomberg, Rob Bowman, Richard Bauckman, Dr Evan, Donald Guthrie, Richard Baukham, And others like F F Bruce , Frank Thielman, Ezra Abbot, Asting, Gaugler, Grant, Harnack, Haupt, Fenton John Anthony Hort, Klijn, Johann David Michaelis, A. Robert, and André Feuillet, Sanders, Schille, Brooke Foss Westcott, and Theodor Zahn. Raymond Brown, Lee Martin McDonald and Stanley Porter accept traditional position.
We have an eyewitness account coming from Polycarp and his own personal disciple Irenaeus. And also Papias a personal convert of the apostle John and they both tell us the apostles wrote those gospels
As a matter of fact, there are no other names mentioned for some 500 years as to who wrote the gospels other than those four apostles.
Scholar FF Bruce believed the apostles were the writers of the gospels.
He writes:
Early in the second century we find Papias, bishop of Hierapolis in Asia Minor, and Polycarp both converts of the apostle John were gathering information on this….
…. Textual Criticism, because it has to admit a much larger speculative element.
Outside Paul’s own letters, we have most of our information about him from the writings of his friend and companion Luke,
…the author of the third Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles.Luke was a physician by profession, and according to a tradition which can be traced back to the second century was a native of Antioch in Syria. Some support is given to this tradition by the internal evidence and the external evidence.
History says:
Papias
How do we know that Mark wrote the gospel of Mark?
How do we know that Mark recorded the observations of an eyewitness?
The short answer is because Papias (< 70 – c. 155) said so. His 5 books, Papias said “ he heard the voice of John". He would have direct knowledge as to who wrote those books from John the apostle. Anything Papias says is simply corroborated by Irenaeus convert of Polycarp, convert of the apostle John. Polycarp and Irenaeus. - conversed with the apostles - Appointed Bishop of Smyrna by John. - Conversed with people that knew Jesus. Clearly the 500 - Taught the doctrines of the apostles that the church handed down that alone is true down to this present time. 180ad - Mentions Polycarp’s letter to the Philippians. - “I hope you are well versed in sacred scriptures” - Led the apostolic movement to Asia Minor. Eastern Turkey. - Corroborated by the letter to Florinus a heretic. There is zero reason not to believe the testimony of these men that were associated to the apostle John. -
Hey Dr. McDowell. I’d like to see something on how the apostles died.
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