General Assembly Financial Kickbacks

General Assembly Financial Kickbacks
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=82038

What is this talk about General Assembly Financial Kickbacks GuideOne

There has been some considerable talk on the street about monetary kick backs to certain people during the 2012 General Assembly. To be more to the point, profits paid back to certain individuals off of Headquaters hotel, Missions hotels and others.

Its common knowledge that individuals with high dollor credit cards have points given to them for people staying in their hotels.

Question is who gets the points for these room accomadations for the various departments? I think that the Executive Committee should give accounting for these points. Who gets the points? Who gets the points on their credit cards? Is this reported to the IRS?

Just a question……….

Last edited by GuideOne on 3/26/15 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Friendly Face
Posts: 296
3/25/15 7:38 pm

Eddie Robbins

In general, are points on credit cards reported to the IRS? I get points and have never received a 10-99 or anything else from companies.
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3/25/15 7:47 pm

“Considerable talk on the street”?????
Alan Wagoner

I must not travel on that street because I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you suggesting that someone at International Headquarters is guilty of personally being paid a commission for General Assembly travel arrangements?

If that is what you are alleging I have a few questions for you.

1. If so, wouldn’t there be an investigation?

2. Would paying a church official a commission for General Assembly arrangements be unethical or illegal?

3. How much money are you talking about?

4. You say “certain people” so do you mean there are several people involved with this?

5. You referenced the 2012 Assembly. If there was wrong done 3 years ago why hasn’t this surfaced before now?

Please enlighten those of us who have not heard one word of this “considerable talk on the street”. Friendly Face
Posts: 163
3/25/15 8:14 pm

Eddie Robbins

GuideOne knows what he/she’s talking about. There is an investigation and that is ALL I am saying about it.
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3/25/15 8:17 pm

Investigation
GuideOne

There has been ongoing investigation. There has been alleged talk all year.

My question is why has this been covered? Why are we protecting certain people? This is not going away soon. Sooner or later this is going to come out in the open. I have found that in past cercumstances that all the facts will be revealed.

Sooner or later the entire Church Of God will become aware of this and it is time for everyone to come clean. Friendly Face
Posts: 296
3/25/15 8:31 pm

Eddie Robbins

It could get real ugly too. I would guess that it’s not talked about because all parties involved have been advised not to talk.
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3/25/15 8:44 pm

You are being quite vague.
Alan Wagoner

What is it that is being alleged? Is a church official being investigated?

What have they allegedly done that would be illegal or unethical?

Are you talking about an Executive Committee member or someone lower on the the totem pole?

Is this just a church investigation or a criminal one?

Why are you ignoring my questions in my first post?

You brought it up so enlighten us. Friendly Face
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3/25/15 8:48 pm

Eddie Robbins

I’ve said all I am going to say. GuideOne is a pen name and can respond.
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3/25/15 8:50 pm

Headquarters employees ordered not to talk about this.
CentFLPstr

I think there must be something to this and that it is really serious. Last night I called three friends that work at General Headquarters to see if they knew anything about this investigation.

Each of them told me they had been told by their superiors they were not allowed to talk about this either at work or outside of headquarters. All three of them told me they knew about it and that it was very serious and that it involved people in high places but they could not discuss the details.

I also talked to a retired minister who lives in Cleveland. He said it is widely known in Cleveland among other retired ministers. He would not name any names but claimed the allegation is that more than a million dollars of church money ended up in personal accounts and that criminal charges will be made public soon. Friendly Face
Posts: 190
3/26/15 5:51 am

Re: What is this talk about General Assembly Commission?
Randy Johnson

GuideOne wrote:
There has been some considerable talk on the street about commission, kick back to certain people during the 2012 General Assembly. To be more to the point, profits paid back to certain individuals off of Headquaters hotel, Missions hotels and others.

Its common knowledge that individuals with high dollor credit cards have points given to them for people staying in their hotels.

Question is who gets the points for these room accomadations for the various departments? I think that the Executive Committee should give accounting for these points. Who gets the points? Who gets the points on their credit cards? Is this reported to the IRS?

Just a question……….

Who cares and why does it matter? It’s just money, and we don’t serve money, right?

I’ve always thought points on credit cards are stupid anyway, spending more and more money and getting charged interest on it, just so you can get a paltry discount on something else you use a credit card to pay for so you can pay more interest.

You realize in the end these “points” will always end up making profits for the credit card issuers and not really the customers. It’s an illusion. So whoever this mystery person is, they can have my points, I give them as a gift. No investigation is necessary for my points.

Unless someone just likes to stir up excrement; there are people like that you know. They can’t be happy unless they are discovering a conspiracy under every rock. Get a life.
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3/26/15 6:02 am

Randy…
Pastor Mark Arnold

This is Randy’s way of not wanting the General Assembly to come to his town!
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3/26/15 8:17 am

Re: Randy…
Randy Johnson

Pastor Mark Arnold wrote:
This is Randy’s way of not wanting the General Assembly to come to his town!

If the General Assembly came to my town –

They would have to bunk in barns of the Amish that live all around me.

They would have to stand in line at the Amish store to get their breakfast and lunch from the deli.

They would have to sit in line at the only gas station in town and make sure they brought cash to pay for their gas.

We would have to erect a tent on the church and parsonage property to contain the crowds.

Only problem is, there would be no place to park, but they could ride an Amish buggy in to the meetings.
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3/26/15 9:25 am

philunderwood

Wow, I thought the one public (sort of) case of embezzlement was all there was. There is more?
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3/26/15 9:58 am

Embezzlement
CentFLPstr

Phil Underwood wrote,
Quote:
Wow, I thought the one public (sort of) case of embezzlement was all there was. There is more?

This is the first time I heard the word embezzlemnt used in reference to this. Also I did not know this was “sort of public”. That really sounds serious.

I suppose one needs to live in Cleveland to keep up with this sort of news. I have talked with several Cleveland friends this morning who all knew of this and were surprised that it has taken this long to get out of Bradley County.

The Cleveland talk alleges that the General Headquarters was overcharged for the General Assembly and about a million dollars came back to a former department head and his enablers. The claim is that there is an ongoing criminal investigation and that it involves several people. I hope this is not true but if it is I hope it all comes to the light. Friendly Face
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3/26/15 10:18 am

JLarry

As I posted earlier I have no dog in this hunt.

I did receive a phone call this morning from someone who is in the know. He assured me, that the person or persons in question is not an elected official.
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3/26/15 10:35 am

bonnie knox

Quote:
I’ve always thought points on credit cards are stupid anyway, spending more and more money and getting charged interest on it, just so you can get a paltry discount on something else you use a credit card to pay for so you can pay more interest.

If you pay your balance every month, you can still accumulate points and not pay interest.
Of course the credit card companies can afford to do this by charging interest to the poor souls who don’t pay off their balance each month. (It’s all about usury.) Acts-perienced Poster
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3/26/15 11:06 am

bonnie knox

Quote:
Who cares and why does it matter? It’s just money, and we don’t serve money, right?

Since “headquarters” is entirely funded by money (i.e. resources) by us, the local church members, we care. Because if we want our resources used to “spread the gospel™” we don’t want them used just to line someone’s personal pockets.
Then there is that whole issue of integrity… …troublesome issue, that. Acts-perienced Poster
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3/26/15 11:31 am

What administration did this supposedly occur?
GuideOne

I believe that this was during the Raymond Culpepper administration. Did the Presiding Bishop know about this expense?

Do we not get an expense report of the cost of General Assembly? For example…What was taken in and what was paid out. Possibly Julian Robinson could provide this information. He was in charge of Business and records during this time.

We have had extensive reports the last 4 years about the tithe of tithe and the hardship of State Executive Offices. There has been cut backs on Youth Directors, and cut backs in every state office. Friendly Face
Posts: 296
3/26/15 12:07 pm

What did he know and when did he know it?
Alan Wagoner

This is the question the Senator from Tennessee, Howard Baker, asked John Dean former counsel to Nixon. From that moment the Presidency of Richard Nixon began to crumble.

It wasn’t the petty crime of breaking and entering that brought Nixon down, it was his role in the cover-up that did it.

From what many of us are learning this morning by simply calling friends in Cleveland, there has been an ongoing investigation about the loss of a considerable amount of money. Rather than hearing about this from our elected officials we have to learn about it from this site.

Employees from our international offices have been ordered to keep silent and not discuss this with anyone. The question that begs answering is, why?

Who is being protected? Is our present Presiding Bishop aware of this? How about the previous PB, did he know about this? If so, what did know and when did he know it? Friendly Face
Posts: 163
3/26/15 12:58 pm

Eddie Robbins

Typical procedure during an investigation. Nothing shady about that.
Quote:
Employees from our international offices have been ordered to keep silent and not discuss this with anyone. The question that begs answering is, why?

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JLarry

Quote:
Is our present Presiding Bishop aware of this?

Nothing against the present PB, but no one can be much more out of touch than I and as of today I know about it.
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3/26/15 1:01 pm

Da Sheik

JLarry wrote:
Nothing against the present PB, but no one can be much more out of touch than I and as of today I know about it.

Now that made me chuckle a bit. Good one JLarry!
Honestly, does it surprise anyone that something like this is possible with the cloak of secrecy that exists regarding financial accountability in the ecclesiastical hierarchy of Cleveland, TN? Acts-celerater
Posts: 649
3/26/15 1:15 pm

philunderwood

JLarry wrote:
As I posted earlier I have no dog in this hunt.

I did receive a phone call this morning from someone who is in the know. He assured me, that the person or persons in question is not an elected official.

That is the publicly known part of this. If someone is found to be in the wrong, then terminated and an investigation pursued, that person can make allegations about others and, even if a blatant lie, it has to be investigated. Just imagine that is the scenario and wait for things to be played out. There is no reason to get up in arms about supposition, innuendo and speculation.
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3/26/15 1:18 pm

Travel Planner and Convention Planner
GuideOne

There is a man by the name of Dick Schindler who has done previous planning for Ray Hughes and General Assemblys. He may be able to shed some light. Friendly Face
Posts: 296
3/26/15 3:31 pm

Nature Boy Florida

Waiting to find out the name.

But I already have in mind the guy that would have most likely been a part of something illegal…I told everyone that listened that he shouldn’t be there – but nobody listens to me.
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3/26/15 3:35 pm

Re: What is this talk about General Assembly Commission?
Cojak

Randy Johnson wrote:

I’ve always thought points on credit cards are stupid anyway, spending more and more money and getting charged interest on it, just so you can get a paltry discount on something else you use a credit card to pay for so you can pay more interest.

You realize in the end these “points” will always end up making profits for the credit card issuers and not really the customers. It’s an illusion. So whoever this mystery person is, they can have my points, I give them as a gift. .

I am with you on that. If it is ‘points’ we are concerned about I think that is a stretch. I have piles of points and don’t know what to do with them and I pay off any credit within a day or two on the Net.

I remember when the evangelism director of NC was accused of taking kickback when the big college tabernacle was built. The State overseer announced that he knew about it and that the ED had said he was offered kickbacks on material they were gong to buy anyway so he took the kickbacks and gave them to the State Treasurer. Some businesses are sure that that is the way to ‘DO BUSINESS’. I would think an investigation would be about more than points. JMO
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3/26/15 4:20 pm

Much bigger than credit card points…
George Jones

From what I hear this has nothing to do with credit card points or frequent flyer miles. It has to do with a large amount of cash that was paid under the table to those who made reservations for the first 2 Orlando General Assemblies.

If you remember the report given to the General Council given by Julian Robinson, the last Orlando Assembly cost considerably less than the previous ones. New Member
Posts: 20
3/26/15 4:44 pm

Nature Boy Florida

C’mon – its more than points.

The problem is – (I have had it confirmed) he never tried to hide it. He flaunted it. All those jokers in Cleveland turning their heads while this went on should all be canned. The TOT should be cut some more so all these financial shenanigans can be weeded out. If no one knew about it – they weren’t trying.

Seriously, this was easy to spot. I did it years ago. For shame.
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3/26/15 4:49 pm

Nature Boy knows who it is.
Clyde Walker

And he is right that they knew what he was doing and did nothing to correct the situation. He was buying up businesses in Cleveland and spending money like it was monopoly money. There were some who enabled him and they may be under investigation as well. Friendly Face
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3/26/15 5:11 pm

Re: Nature Boy knows who it is.
Cojak

Clyde Walker wrote:
And he is right that they knew what he was doing and did nothing to correct the situation. He was buying up businesses in Cleveland and spending money like it was monopoly money. There were some who enabled him and they may be under investigation as well.

Amazing, that!
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3/27/15 10:30 am

Re: Travel Planner and Convention Planner
Old Time Country Preacher

GuideOne wrote:
There is a man by the name of Dick Schindler who has done previous planning for Ray Hughes and General Assemblys. He may be able to shed some light.

You might just be right on this one GO, hey, Ive heard for a long time now bout Schindler’s List.
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3/27/15 1:54 pm

No Longer Employed At Headquarters
caveator

To ease everyone’s mind some, the primary individual at the center of all of this has not been employed by the Church of God for some time. Friendly Face
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3/27/15 8:55 pm

demon hunter

As a member of the COG this makes me cringe. Unless members are actually reading this site, I’d say the majority of COG members will never know about this whether covered up or uncovered but it sure does make me want to check the box of general funds instead of tithes if this is what is happening to the monies that are being sent in…
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3/27/15 10:07 pm

Cojak

demon hunter wrote:
As a member of the COG this makes me cringe. Unless members are actually reading this site, I’d say the majority of COG members will never know about this whether covered up or uncovered but it sure does make me want to check the box of general funds instead of tithes if this is what is happening to the monies that are being sent in…

Hey DH, you have a point, but being the head of my house, my wife will not allow me to do that.

But I am glad to hear the person is no longer part of the ‘HQ. Folk’.
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3/27/15 11:37 pm

diakoneo

Cojak wrote:

But I am glad to hear the person is no longer part of the ‘HQ. Folk’.

Yes, but unless things like this see the light of day, they could happen again! Acts Enthusiast
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3/28/15 9:12 am

This is what we investigate??
Clint Wills

Pastors ruin churches with debt constantly and we are investigating HQ for credit card rewards?! I can’t believe that this is what we spend money on. Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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3/28/15 3:50 pm

Credit card rewards? Not the problem.
Clyde Walker

Sorry Clint, but credit card rewards is the not the problem. We are talking about cash payments to an individual up to a million dollars for bogus General Assembly expenses.

However there has been abuse of credit card reward points. Here is how that works. Let say there is one person who pays the hotel bill for hundreds of missionaries that have been brought in from around the world. Or it could be for any other large department of the church that provides hotels for large numbers of people. It has been said that some people responsible for settling that hotel bill has been known to pay for it with their own personal gold or black card and getting a check to reimburse them. They then collect hundreds of thousands of reward points and take their family on a free trip.

That would be bad but cannot compare with a person presenting bogus expenses for the entire Assembly. I think that is more like what we are hearing about with this embezzlement scandal. Friendly Face
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3/28/15 5:19 pm

message from Mark Williams
wayne

Just sent out today regarding this matter. Acts-celerater
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3/28/15 5:46 pm

Re: message from Mark Williams
Cojak

wayne wrote:
Just sent out today regarding this matter.

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3/28/15 7:38 pm

Statement from General Overseer
George Jones

Statement on Troy Scot Carter Matter
Cleveland, Tennessee–March 28, 2015

We learned yesterday that Troy Scot Carter, a former Church of God employee, was officially charged for his part in an elaborate scheme to financially defraud the church, over a period of several years, according to information provided to church officials.

Approximately two years ago, church officials were made aware of possible irregularities regarding General Assembly financial matters involving this former employee. Immediately thereafter Legal Counsel for the church was notified, and after consultation with outside legal counsel, the Federal Bureau of Investigation was contacted. This began an extensive investigation, with which the International Executive Committee has fully cooperated.

During the pendency of this investigation, church leaders were advised by federal authorities and by legal counsel not to publicly comment on or publish information regarding the investigation. However, the International Executive Committee was allowed to and did keep the International Executive Council apprised as to the general progress of the ongoing investigation.

The findings of the investigation have revealed that no elected church official, former or present, was involved in or had any knowledge of the irregularities giving rise to this criminal matter.

It is believed that the irregularities relate to various expenses connected with past International General Assemblies. A significant amount of the missing funds potentially will be recouped due to an insurance policy protecting the church against such fraud. The church has taken additional measures to ensure that this type of scenario will not occur in the future. The church will take further steps to evaluate the prospects of exercising its legal options to recoup all of the money which was taken and is advised that restitution will probably be a part of any order of the court.

The church also has been advised that the filing of such charges usually is followed by the presentation of a proposed plea agreement which will outline, in some detail, the results of the investigation. The disposition of any plea agreement, when entered into, is under the sole discretion of the federal authorities. The church will continue to cooperate fully with the FBI and the office of the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee.

We urge prayer for all involved and for the continued ministry of the church.

demon hunter

Quote:
The findings of the investigation have revealed that no elected church official, former or present, was involved in or had any knowledge of the irregularities giving rise to this criminal matter.

Why not? Are there not checks and balances in HQ’s or maybe I’m missing something here. How did someone not know about monies missing?
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Yesterday at 3:55 pm

Eddie Robbins

Maybe when the whole story comes out, you’ll understand a little better. There are all sorts of these cases in business that you can ask that same question. Don’t you think that someone who is going to do this knows about checks and balances and does something to make it hard to be caught? Happens every day in all sorts of businesses.
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Yesterday at 5:27 pm

georgiapath

Unless there were no checks and balances in place, this could not have happened. Someone else would have had to know, or have helped this person. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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Yesterday at 5:41 pm

Eddie Robbins

georgiapath wrote:
Unless there were no checks and balances in place, this could not have happened. Someone else would have had to know, or have helped this person.

If you are working to defraud, you avoid checks and balances. Otherwise, there would never be an issue like this and it happens all the time.

If I work for a corporation and am put in charge of setting up a convention, how does anyone know that the man who owns the travel agency is putting money in my pocket to secure the business? What checks and balances catch that? Both parties are hiding it.
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Yesterday at 8:08 pm

Nature Boy Florida

Supposedly there is a committee to plan assemblies. Were the rest of them incompetent? Were they playing golf or running the green way when they should have been checking the numbers?
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Last edited by Nature Boy Florida on 3/30/15 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yesterday at 10:34 pm

Link
Judah4Him

There’s an article on front page of chattanoogan.com Friendly Face
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Today at 6:13 am

Re: Link
Eddie Robbins

Judah4Him wrote:
There’s an article on front page of chattanoogan.com

They only wrote the article after it was discussed here.
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Today at 6:35 am

georgiapath

Easy come, easy go. It’s just us little people’s money, they would like for us to just shut up and keep the money coming in. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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Today at 8:12 am

you know…
wayne

The city I live in just busted their city manager for doing the same thing but the amount was much higher. Sometimes, I think the standards we have for our church officials is a little unrealistic. I am even guilty of this at times.
We all hire people to do jobs for us and we all want to trust these individuals to be honest and do their jobs.
Personally, I think there needs to be some applause for the fact that they bought an insurance policy for a potential issue like this. That’s these officials actually watching out for us. Acts-celerater
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Today at 9:57 am

Nature Boy Florida

Maybe COG HQ has just been getting their business practices training from the wrong guy…

caveator

georgiapath wrote:
Easy come, easy go. It’s just us little people’s money, they would like for us to just shut up and keep the money coming in.

Wow! I bet you are suspicious of black helicopters and those blue reflectors on the highways also. I don’t think I have ever seen or heard of anyone more suspicious than your posts.

Our leadership consists of great godly men that I believe in. I am thankful for the way they have handled this tragic situation.

HighFive

caveator wrote:
georgiapath wrote:
Easy come, easy go. It’s just us little people’s money, they would like for us to just shut up and keep the money coming in.

Wow! I bet you are suspicious of black helicopters and those blue reflectors on the highways also. I don’t think I have ever seen or heard of anyone more suspicious than your posts.

Our leadership consists of great godly men that I believe in. I am thankful for the way they have handled this tragic situation.

Typical GeorgiaPath MO.
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3/31/15 9:06 pm

georgiapath

Sorry guys, I never acquired a taste for kool-aid. You all just keep on drinking it, you can have my share.
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Today at 7:32 am

diakoneo

What happened to GuideOne

When I go to look at his previous posts, his account is non-existent!

What happened???

Hmmmm… Acts Enthusiast
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Today at 12:44 pm

Nature Boy Florida

Who is GuideOne?

Never heard of her.
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Today at 1:11 pm

diakoneo

Erased…erased from existence

Erased … Rafael D Martinez

.. Great Snell .. another Acts twist into the weird has just occurred.

I’d ask for a minute of silence but I don’t know who we’re talking about.
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