If there is absolutely no sin in heaven then how was Lucifer to be found with sin while in heaven.
Discussion
51 comments
-
Never thought about that one, following.
-
Sin is a consequence of action.
-
There wasn’t. Satan’s sin happened in Eden.
Eze 28:12-16 KJ2000 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyre, and say unto him, Thus says the Lord GOD; You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your timbrels and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. 14 You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the multitude of your trade they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
1Jn 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
-
First you have to understand what sin means,
In a religious context, sin is an act of transgression against divine law. … Sin is associated with the corruption of a being through acts which are wicked or destructive, such that can cause a being to fall from grace and divine providence. -
Your question is not worth an answer
-
Well this is a complex question that theologians of great regard can’t come to a consensus on (mostly because scripture doesn’t talk bout this). Since it doesn’t deal with ‘diety, death, or resurrection’ I would say it is not a matter of salvation. So which ever or how many answers there are, it won’t affect salvation. That said…
There are more than 1 type of free will. Also if we consider sin in its simplest form. God’s nature is perfect, pure, Holy, all encompassing and all that exists is through His nature. So sin is nothing more than going against God’s nature. Some say it is breaking commandments. That is only partially true. Commandments are God’s way of telling HUMANs how not to violate His nature.
That mean there are ways of breaking God’s nature (sinning) that humans are not capable of. What we don’t know is, do angles have their own commandments? Scripture indirectly says maybe. All angles tell humans not to worship them. Where did all angles get this from? A possible answer is commandments or rules so angles don’t violate God’s nature. But even without such commandments Gods nature still exists. Given there are more than 1 type of free will, it is extremely possible for angles to violate Gods nature aka sin. Aka fall.
Now the second Lucifer did sin he was booted from heaven. But by God’s will sin can be tolerated in heaven. Read the book of Job. Sin can be in Heaven when it is Gods will for His purpose and therefore doesn’t violate His nature.
Now most of this at best can only be loosely based on scripture as we only get indirect details from scripture on this topic. Which is why there will be many possible answers. Which one is the right answer? Only God knows. And like I said this isn’t a doctrine that affects salvation.
-
That is why satan was kicked out from heaven. Sin has no place in heaven…
-
No “law” no sin at all. God gave a law to Adam in the garden of Eden. “you can eat every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:16-17). when there is no law given, even Adam and eve consumed all trees in the garden of Eden they will not sin bec. no law to violate. probably God was also given a law to the Angels, and Lucifer with his colleagues violated it so as punishment God thrown them down on earth.
-
Satan was kicked out of heaven if you recall from the story when he rebelled.
-
Satan had a role to fill in Heaven. He was the accuser of men.
A counter-question: who said there was no sin in Heaven (God’s throne room)?
-
There was sin in the garden too remember the flaming swords?
-
Who ever claimed that there was no sin in heaven?
-
Some answers are not meant to be known until heaven. 🙂
-
Heaven means the place of the angels, but not the throne of God.
Since since heaven should be sinless, the sinner is being thrown out.
-
There are three heavens. One of physical creation( the sun, moon, and stars) one where spirits travel unseen to the eyes of men around our world, and one where God resides with his kingdom. Consider the plurality in Genesis 1:1 in reference to the heavens. Or when Paul speaks of the third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12. Jesus said that he saw Satan fall like lightning(Luke 10:18), so he was instantaneously cast out (see Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28). Also take a look at Job 1, Satan went in with the angels to present himself to the Lord from roaming the earth.
-
The Devil Was A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING JOHN 8:44
-
Angels had free will like humans, but their final choice was made and sealed with the first part of the Great War, the first rebellion. It was Satan’s sin and the sin of the demons which resulted in them being cast out. They rejected God, so they rejected His design, a perfect Heaven. Our turn for the final choice is at the end of the world.
-
Satan was kicked out of heaven so fast. Jesus described satan falling like a lightning fall.. straight, quick, immediate. ?
-
New heaven new earth. Satan is defeated in the beginning. Therefore what do you ask?
-
Angels today can STILL sin. What do you think Job was all about??
The reason there WON’T be any sin in heaven for us is because we will be given incorruptible bodies. More specifically, we will be perfected within the body of God, through the body of Christ himself, and Christ CAN’T sin. It’s impossible.
We are born of the Spirit of God, so there is no sinful nature to be inherited like there was through Adam.
-
Analyze the question first to give an exact and reliable answer.
Which heaven is the incorruptible and perfect?
The first heaven which was the first created heaven, or the new heaven in revelation 21?
The first heaven was corrupted by the rebellion of satan and of his angels, so, the design of God for the coming of new heaven in eternity is because God will bring back His very purpose to His creation and perfect design. -
Not all questions regarding from the Bible are not meant to be answered, our fucos is Jesus, our relationship with Him.
-
It is not sin as we sin in human form. Lucifer was self-decieved. Desired God’s position. This is according to Christian teaching. Under the old Jewish conditions Lucifer was merely an angel used by God to exact misfortune on humans. See Job. In this case Lucifer is just a Bull Dog on a short leash.
-
God created beings with will power. If he had done otherwise, he would have created robots.
Angels are not robots, they were made by God but serve Him by choice.An extra, can God forgive Lucifer, I think Yes.
But Lucifer is proud enough to ask forgiveness.You see, any amount of pride is dangerous almost self destructive in nature.
-
Why not ask lucifer?
-
Lucifer is not the Devil.
-
get back to the Question please. thanks
-
Lucifer used to be the right hand of God. However when he started to have greedy desires, God kicked him out.
-
Hold now, where are you responders getting your info that Lucifer had free will? How could he be made perfect yet have sin be found in him? Where did that sin originate from? And obviously, how was he a liar & a murderer from the beginning & yet he was perfect? And at the right hand of god ( Isnt there someone else in that spot?). Also, it makes me confused thinking God knew all of it would happen before it did. Please someone give me an answer. I believe, but am struggling ! Blessings!
-
I like this question! Could it be that we all were with God spiritually and because of sin, Lucifer was cast out from among the spirits of the righteous?
-
the sinn started in heven in the mind of luzifer- its a mystery- there was no reason for luzifer to sin against jesus – no sin makes any sense
-
Far out
-
I don’t know how Please ask from God.
-
The first sin in the universe was pride and the first being to sin was Lucifer, an Arch angel who dwell in the very presence of God in heaven. Theologians believe that Lucifer was the worship leader in heaven. He was exceedingly beautiful and endowed with special abilities. Lucifer begun to looked upon his own beauty and wisdom-attributes created in him by the Lord and he decided that he would raise his throne above God. He foolishly declared, “I will make myself like the Most High.” Here you can see that Lucifer’s heart was filled with pride after considering his own beauty.
-
Read the Bible, there is a reason why Satan is there. Satan and other fallen Angel take up consul in Heaven. They each have Dominion on earth. For instance in Daniel 10:12-13 state “I have come in response to your prayer. The commander of the Persian kingdom opposed me for 21 days. But then Michael, one of the chief commanders, came to help me because I was left alone with the kings of Persia”
What is the Kings of Persia? I don’t think this was literal meaning of Human king but a fallen angel with dominion over the Persia kingdom. Therefore Satan and his fallen angel will be cast out soon in Book of Revelation. Once Christ return, he will appoint human consul and will take on the mantel to be the ruler of these dominion. God is in control and his plan superseded our understanding. Just trust in what he is doing.
-
Satan has been cast out of heaven
-
That heaven and this earth will be destroyed and a new heaven and new earth will be revealed.( actually better translation is be made new again)
-
I don’t know
-
There is no verse stating, that satan was an angel in heaven and sinned against God. Wrong teaching.
-
Has to do with the existing of will that is not God’s own. Necessary for man to have and gain an identity before God… who alone existed before anything was.
-
Ineffible plan.
-
Zinger! Now you know why Lucifer is an invention of the church. HaSatan works for God, he isn’t a god.
-
I can answer this question but most people would not accept my answer and some would not even understand my answer. Satan is a necessary evil, the world we find ourselves in is a dichotomy, Earth and Heaven, good and evil, mortal and immortal, flesh and spirit Etc even the two magnetic poles of the planet are an expression of this dichotomy, also electricity, DC current without a negative you do not have a positive. Without a negative AKA Satan we cannot grow spiritually, Satan is the heavy weight at the gym and as you learn to resist Satan you grow spiritual muscles. How much strength would you grow if you went to the gym and there were no weights there were no resistant machines? None. Some vessels are made for Honor some are made for dishonor. Judas, pharaoh, Satan are examples
-
It is interesting to think about: since God is light, the moment darkness was before Him, it was expelled.
-
There is sinful fallen angels in heaven. But no sin exist at the throne of God.
-
Good question…
-
Free will to choose
-
William Lane Craig’s Cosmological Argument
1. Everything that began to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. The universe has a cause.William Lane Craig’s Moral Argument
1. If God does not exist, then there are no objective moral values or duties.
2. There are objective moral values and duties.
3. Therefore, God exists.Teleological Argument
1. The life enabled universe was a result of physical necessity, chance, or design.
2. It was not through physical necessity or chance.
3. Therefore it was by design.Alvin Plantinga’s Ontological Argument
1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists
2. If a maximally great being possibly exists, then he exists in some possible world.
3. If a maximum great being exists in some possible world, then he would exist in all possible worlds.
4. If he exists in all possible worlds then it exists in our world.
5. Therefore a maximally great being actually exists.Tim Stratton’s Freethinking Argument
1. If naturalism is true, the immaterial human soul does not exist
2. If the soul does not exist, then libertarian free will does not exist
3. If libertarian free will does not exist, then rationally and knowledge do not exist
3. Rationally and knowledge do exist
4. Therefore libertarian free will does exist
5. Therefore the soul exists
6. The best explanation for the existence of the soul and libertarian free will is the Biblical GodCS Lewis’s Argument from Reason
1. No belief is rationally inferred if it can be fully explained in terms of nonrational causes.
2. If naturalism is true, then all beliefs can be fully explained in terms of nonrational causes.
3. Therefore, if naturalism is true, then no belief is rationally inferred (from 1 and 2).
4. We have good reason to accept naturalism only if it can be rationally inferred from good evidence.
5. Therefore, there is not, and cannot be, good reason to accept naturalism. -
The devil was a murderer and theif from the beginning. He is not the king of Tyre in Isiah. He was never good.
-
There’s three heavens. Satan is in the second heaven and in Revelation he gets kicked out and thrown down to earth
-
[…] If there is absolutely no sin in heaven then how… […]
Comments