Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been…

4 years ago • August 11, 2022 • by ourCOG

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been really digging into what scripture says regarding homosexuality. What I have concluded from studying the contexts and the actual words used before translation, that the specific sin is the sexual act. When reading of the cultures in New Testament times (and even OT times), I have read:
1. there was no ‘gay’ identity, as that did not come about til the 19th century or so.
1. Homosexual sex was considered a higher level of intimacy from heterosexual sex (as one understands the same gender better), which caused a typical man to want to achieve the highest intimacy. This happened in Roman culture and would explain Romans 1:25-29, where Paul talks about how men have abandoned natural relations for unnatural ones.
1. It was frowned upon to be the ‘feminine’ one in the sexual act, meaning that these men were probably not willing volunteers. So men in higher power would ‘take advantage’ of someone in a lower class or a servant, and a typical man would go to a male prostitute. This would explain in Sodom why all the men in that community wanted the angels, as they intended to gang-rape them and take advantage of foreigners (since they would not want to do this to one of their own).

Has anyone here done studies on this topic? If so, is this what you have been seeing? Else what have your findings been?

To clarify: Yes, sexual relations between the same gender is a sin/abomination/detestable. Scripture is clear on this and says it multiple times.

What I am looking for is if anyone has studied how the cultures in the time were regarding same-sex relations, as I think it was quite different from our culture today.

Categories: #ourCOG Tags: ourCOG

Discussion

46 comments

Dan Waenet says:

April 23, 2020 at 5:43 am

My finding is God says “No homo”.

Reply
Gary Heavey says:

April 23, 2020 at 5:52 am

What’s your question tho ?

Reply
Oliver Ntloana says:

April 23, 2020 at 6:46 am

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Reply
Dave Van Huffel says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:10 am

A lot of studies done on this topic by different churches on the net. (Reformed, Presbyterian, Methodist and Anglican churches.) Have a look.

Reply
Dave Van Huffel says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:12 am

OT and NT historical textual analysis and criticism are important. Paul wrote from his knowledge and experience as OT scribe.

Reply
Thulisile Masemola says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:13 am

What’s your question,??

Reply
Maxwell Moyo says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:37 am

Just to add to his question. I have noticed that in my community people start to be gays in their early childhood. Even at 5yrs they will be exhibiting signs of homosexuality. Which clearly shows that they are not choosing to be gays or lesbians they are born with it. My question is is it in the genes of the person or it’s a demon that enters at birth.

Reply
David Chase says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:41 am

The sexual sin is doing the sexual act but homosexual lifestyle also forbidden

Reply
Jennifer Lynne EvansKwiek says:

April 23, 2020 at 7:54 am

I believe it is the act of homosexual relations, but also, as would be with heterosexuals, clubbing and such, also are sin.

Reply
Tammie Edwards says:

April 23, 2020 at 8:01 am

The forced act of intended homosexual gang-rape was described twice in the Bible. Sodom and Gomorrah was one. The other was about a man and his concubine. Surely that type of heinous rape has no foundation in intimate love but instead in lust, control, and selfishness. God examines hearts.

Reply
Robert Durrance says:

April 23, 2020 at 8:23 am

My first post in another group was on this same topic. My point was that we are to Love EVERYONE. Not mock and laugh at, such as I was seeing in that group. By the next day people were calling for me to be removed from the group.

I believe it is a sin, but I also believe that I am to Love all people.

Reply
Kev N Shell Mitch says:

April 23, 2020 at 8:31 am

This sounds alot like the conclusions that Matthew Vine and Mel White on the topic of homosexuality. There are some very thoughtful responses to those conclusions by some great theologian. On the topic of homosexuality I would say two things. One, in reference to your first point, there was no gay identity in the Bible. Correct. Because no one is born gay. Very simple question to ask, and I’ve asked many people, is do you believe that someone is born to hate, have feelings of anger, towards any specific person or group if people? The answer is typically no, but then they will respond by saying a gay identified person did choose those FEELINGS of attractions. My response, correct, but you don’t choose any feelings. Feelings are a response to environmental stimuli based on a person’s developed belief system. If no one is born to have to hate then no one is born to have to love any particular person or group of people. Second, to love, you must be FREE to love or else it is not live it is manipulation. The very first words God spoke to mankind ” you are free…” Demonstrates the nature in which God created mankind.

Reply
Tanner Street says:

April 23, 2020 at 9:23 am

The act of homosexuality is a sin, notice in I Cor 6, Paul explains who won’t inherit the Kingdom of God. Take a close look at V 11 “such were some of you”. Which means they were….. homosexual, thief’s, etc….but they repented. Brothers and sisters, let’s look at it in this matter, we learn from Rom 5 that we were enemies of God. We also know that we sin and fall short. The whole deal is…repentance.
What is that? That is to stop doing the sin and turn back to God. Now some may say come as you are. And at the church what accept you. But what you need to be thinking about is it when you come as you are, once you encounter God you cannot stay the same. So the point is repentance because none of us can make it to heaven without God.

Reply
David Holmes says:

April 23, 2020 at 9:38 am

u went to seminary yes or no?

Reply
Keith Schuster says:

April 23, 2020 at 9:54 am

I know homosexuality is a sin by all biblical standards. I also know that myself, Paul, and most Christians all have their own thorns in the flesh. Things we know are wrong and we find ourselves doing them, and what we know is right, we do not do…I have no doubt that there may be homosexuals in heaven. If they know Christ and take their offenses before God in prayer with an earnest heart, God will forgive them just as God forgives all Christians when they live in truth and repentance before God. Regardless of the exact sin, we all fall short on a daily basis. We all have new sins that must be repented if and asked to be cleansed in the blood. Until this mortal shall put on immortality and this corruption put on incorruptibility…

Reply
Chris Meinken says:

April 23, 2020 at 10:00 am

Well in the same way heterosexuals are not allowed to lust as homos and yes sex is the progression from the original sin of lust. This is how I level the playing feild a little when I talk about sin with homos. Because they understand we have temptation in common. Abstinence and turning are gods expectations for any kind of lust.

Reply
Ken Leeder says:

April 23, 2020 at 10:08 am

Why is this such a big issue for you?

Reply
Daniel Sidderley says:

April 23, 2020 at 10:51 am

All homosexuality and lesbianism, whether in thought or deed, consensual or forced, outside of marriage, or in the context of civil partnership (unholy matrimony), is wrong in the eyes of God.

Reply
Abigail González says:

April 23, 2020 at 11:03 am

I have seen homosexuals and lesbians that became that because of some factors: (I’m not a scholar on the topic, just my experience and readings)
-Those who have been raped by homosexuals or lesbians.
-Those who have veery low selfsteem
-Those who doesn’t have father and are bullied for any physical condition or aspect.
I think that demons are the major cause on people becoming homosexuals, they start trying to convince people that they’re homosexuals, cheating on them, but they become homosexual until they have the sexual act, and there the sin is.
God keep away the children of this badly generation. (I don’t have kids but someday I will)

Reply
Anand Gill says:

April 23, 2020 at 11:42 am

Homosexuality started druing the time of Bolylon. When israelite went in bolylon. They have culture every gril above 10 most have to do sex with anyone.
People were doing this. So israelite people adopted their culture and practices.
I think homosexuality started from there

Reply
Kathy DeVoss says:

April 23, 2020 at 12:12 pm

It is the practice not the person. Love the sinner but hate the sin

Reply
Trey Rodriguez says:

April 23, 2020 at 12:38 pm

Yes, your first point is irrelevant.

Don’t need to know an identity to forbid an act.

Reply
Corey Matthew says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:01 pm

Jesus said marriage and sexual intimacy should be how it was at the beginning, a man should leave his parents and become one flesh to his wife.

What did God create in the garden at the beginning? Man and Woman who became one flesh.

What did God say regarding the same? Read over chapter 18 of Leviticus.

Reply
John Farmer says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:08 pm

Jesus put a halt to it when he said all sexual immorality was a sin. Sexual immorality is any sexual encounter outside of the marriage between one man and one woman.

Reply
Absalom Ishaku says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:23 pm

Guy, don’t deceive yourself. Sodom was going to be destroyed before the angels were even sent. Whether intimacy or whatever you want to call. It is evil and despicable.

Reply
Timothy Hutson says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:29 pm

This seems pretty clear cut
Leviticus 18:22 NASB
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, [10] nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1 Timothy 1:10 NASB
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

Reply
James Locklear says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:52 pm

So Dan Farnow do you believe homosexuality is sinful or no?

Reply
James Locklear says:

April 23, 2020 at 1:57 pm

Homosexuality is rampant in satanism and Luciferian magic huge male on male orgies take place in rituals to Ba’al, and other demons considered “scared” by practicing occultist I was part of it. For the majority of my childhood and adult life I “identified” as being bisexual even though I am happily married to a woman. However this was my biggest complaint to God “how can me loving a man be wrong O Lord.” Not only did He show me why it’s not called wrong in the Bible but an abomination. I can honestly say for the first time in my adult life. I no longer have the desire to be with men sexually, I weep for men and women caught up in the deception of illicit sex! God have mercy on us all! You can’t convince me it’s not an abomination when I have lived the abominable life!

Reply
Earl Downing says:

April 23, 2020 at 2:01 pm

Dan, it is possible to have feelings towards the same sex without engaging in sin, that is, the act of homosexuality. I have temptations for women and I am a happily married man, but the desire is not what the sin is. I bring those desires under subjection to the Lord. I have victory as long as I am obedient to the Spirit of God.

Reply
Liz Browne says:

April 23, 2020 at 2:08 pm

I thinks it can also be considered to be a different kind of sin in the sense that it is also referred to as a “judicial hardening” of their hearts, that God “gives them over to their own lusts” Romans 1
A punishment/consequent of them first willingly and consciously rejecting Him.

Reply
Kevin Richards says:

April 23, 2020 at 2:24 pm

These are all great answers by everyone.
Something else to consider is the way God creates things, and even walks thing out in our lives, in a circular fashion. Like the golden ratio or the circle of life, or the material being a shadow and type of the spiritual. Adam corrupting everything and the New Adam redeeming everything.

A very interesting one is the union of husband and wife, the two becoming one flesh in marriage, the way Eve was taken of Adam’s rib.
In the same way, Christ is the husband of the Bride, having his rib pierced for our new creation, bringing us in union with him.
The man is a representation of Christ, as the woman is a representation of the Church at large. She glorifies him.

Have you ever noticed that the Temple was built like reproductive parts of the woman? The Outer Court, the Inner Court, and the Holy of Holies, where the Life of God lived. The Holy of Holies representing the womb, were life is, and could only be entered by the High Priest, which represented Christ.
Inbetween the Holy of Holies and the Inner Court was a thick curtain, that the high priests would drench with the blood of the sacrifices.
The curtain, representing the hymen, was only torn when the real High Priest, the real Husband, the Second Adam, had his rib pierced on the Cross to create a new life. The Spirit of God leaving the Holy Holies, to indwell in us.

It’s because of this, that a woman having sex with another woman represents the Bride choosing herself over Christ, and a man having sex with a man represents Christ choosing himself over us… and is the reason God does not honor them, and the reason homosexual relationships cannot bear the fruit of life, by design. God, the Architect, is always faithful to his own designs, and changes us to be inline with his Holy Will, never the other way around.

Reply
Gene Williams Jr. says:

April 23, 2020 at 3:22 pm

Have you read any material by Gay christians

Reply
Carol Strong says:

April 23, 2020 at 3:22 pm

Gay Christans is a oxy moron, no such thing

Reply
Carol Strong says:

April 23, 2020 at 3:24 pm

it is a unnatural relationship, we were not intended to have sex with the same sex, I think if one would look in the mirror it becomes pretty apparent, so for that reason it is consider a defilement before and a abomination before a HOLY God and our conscience bears witness to this every human being knows its wrong,

Reply
Uriah Hill says:

April 23, 2020 at 3:45 pm

homosexual sex is a higher form of sex than heterosexual sex but Roman says it is unnatural……okay ?

Reply
Jeff Adolphson says:

April 23, 2020 at 6:02 pm

Read Lev 18. Subtitles prohibited pagan practices. Gods intent was to keep the Hebrews or Jews clean & set apart by not worshipping & sacrificing to other gods like molech, to be sexually pure, not to commit incest or get STD’s & not defile yourself by such practices. The punishment was harsh back then: excommunication.
Why shouldn’t these principals still be in effect for Gods church today? Also Romans 1 deals with the issue. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 6:9-11 that they are unjust & will not inherit Gods kingdom.

Reply
Rebekah Yaxley says:

April 23, 2020 at 6:18 pm

I haven’t read much of the comment here so forgive me if repetitive. I think there’s an underlying sin to all sin and that is greed. Greed for what we want, greed to have our own will occur rather than God’s will. This topic interested me quite a bit during the debate over same-sex marriage in Australia and it actually brought me back to my belief in the God of the Bible in late 2017 and back to a real relationship and enjoyment of His indwelling in early 2019. I agree with Tim Keller’s view here: https://youtu.be/IZFCB9sduxQ

Reply
Robert Porter says:

April 23, 2020 at 6:22 pm

Sodomy
Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
The events described here occurred in Old Testament times.

Reply
Bruce Kunkleman says:

April 23, 2020 at 11:27 pm

It’s an abomination unto God.

Reply
Brent Waters says:

April 24, 2020 at 2:11 am

Matthew 5:27-28 English Standard Version (ESV)
Lust
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

This is even worse with same sex. Cuz its an abomination

Reply
Arthur Adam Haglund says:

April 24, 2020 at 7:23 am

Nothing of your post came from scripture.

Reply
David Payne says:

April 24, 2020 at 8:04 am

The Bible defines sex as an act between man and woman. Therefore what happens between a two women or two men isn’t sex, therefore not a sin.

Reply
Emmanuel Roman says:

April 24, 2020 at 10:17 am

Reply
Blessed Onochie says:

April 24, 2020 at 12:36 pm

Sir permit me say there is something we need to look at Leviticus 18vs5&20vs13 clearly labelled Homosexuality as an abomination before God and it has been in existence as old as at the time of Abraham.Genesis 19vs5 the men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to sex two angels of God whom they thought were mortal men and this alone made the angels furious showing clearly that Homosexuality has being in existence since then till now,and they are included in sins of sexual immorality bcos the old testament was made perfect by Jesus but not disproved So Brother it is an abomination before God and Nature and separate you from God’s spirit

Reply
Yehoshua Marion says:

May 2, 2020 at 9:58 am

Be careful where you’re getting your sources at there’s preachers and theologians I can find that say that abortion and all kinds of tremendously evil acts that occur are just fine Case in point to look at the Christian Church in Nazi Germany look at bonhoeffer’s work priest actually would come to him and ask him why he didn’t we can’t and I’ll and go along with Hitler’s plan So be very very careful where you get your information and what the doctrine actually says doctrine first and foremost comes from scripture the rest of it is not important I would encourage you stick to the Bible research Greek and Hebrew look at the culture look at what is actually being said.
That being said people you saw them into more as the case of example against homosexuality but I don’t see Sodom and Gomorrah that way I see it more as a case against the treatment of other human beings in a much broader sense.
I’m also familiar with the understanding between David and his best friend This is a stretch to say the least It’s not implied it’s not said it’s simply not there. What is there is it David loved him more than he loved any women but in the context you understand that David had thousands of concubines and given the proclivity of David especially given the story about Sheba we understand that David treated women as property in many aspects You’re not going to love property He didn’t have a lot of respect for women and this caused him a lot of problems in his life. That he would love Jonathan more than any woman is the planet simple fact he had more respect for him He cared about his opinions and spending time with him more than he did women This is a no surprise and it does not imply in any way a homosexual relationship.
furthermore the reading of Paul and his writings in about some of you were also a feminist but have come out of that and are Christians and are adhering to the words of the Lord now says very plainly what the proper relationship would be in other verses such as even women exchange the natural order for love of themselves these kinds of things are very very strong and paint a very clear picture We do not muddy the waters of what is clear by looking at what is unclear that is an inversion of the proper study of scripture.
It’s important that we use what is clear to clean the waters that are muddy It’s important that we look at what the Bible plainly says and use that as a guide when we are confused or do not fully understand a subject.

Reply
Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been… #ourCOG – ourcog says:

May 27, 2021 at 9:00 am

[…] Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been… […]

Reply

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I have been…

Comments

Discussion

46 comments

Related Posts

wrestle with despair http://goo.gl/fb/ItVvj #ourCOG

Matthew 28:20