For those who believe in election.
If God desire all people to be save, why all are not elected?
It means those who are elected is saved but those are not is predistined to hell?
It means God predistined people to hell?
Discussion
51 comments
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Key is ‘in Christ’
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No one is predestined to Hell…God simply acts upon what is in our heart. God knows the heart even though He has provided you with free will to choose. God knows those who are His as He knows the beginning from the end and though He desires that all men and women be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth…He also knows that only a “few” will trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord for the mediation of their sin (1 Timothy 2:4; Matthew 7:12-14) while “many” will choose death in Hell in rebellion in atheism.
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God is all knowing …read the book of Psalm 139.
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The question is how do you know who is elected and who isn’t ?
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Yes God knows who will end up in hell and who in heaven however it was mans free will choice that lead him to hell if he goes there. God did not predestine him to hell. He made a conscious decision on his own having been given the same opportunity to believe as everyone else. We were all created equal and God is not impartial. But we have free will and make the decision ourself. God did not make the decision he only created that person. God did not create that person to not believe that person chose not to believe in his own free will. It’s amazing how God can still know the future from the beginning but never interfere with free will.
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I haven’t been elected to anything. I chose to follow Yeshua.
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He is all knowing. He knows who will choose Him before they do. So they are His elect. Frank Turek has a good way of explaining this. Say your recording a football game and wanna watch it when you get home like it was live and someone tells you the score. You know the out come but that doesn’t mean the players don’t have free will during the game cuz you know the outcome
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God didnt predestine to hell but God does not live in the constructs of time so he and He only knows beginning to end.
So for that person they have a choice but God already knows their choice.
It’s like the trinity, very hard to explain.. -
thats bc only God makes choice
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we think too highlynof ourselves
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we can not creat a choice.bc God pre ORDAINED every thing first
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The original Greek that got translated into “all people” was talking about all KINDS of people, not all people ever. It was to tell the Jews that God’s chosen people can also be gentiles.
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If we look at God’s sovereignty and man’s will through the confines of time, it opens up a unique way of viewing how salvation works. https://theologetics315.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/option-c-the-time-salvation-paradox/
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Predestination is not taught in the Bible.
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The gift of salvation is available for everyone but you would only realize that you were elected only after you are saved and born again.
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Let’s begin with the premise that all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God. As such, every one deserves hell. That is justice. However, God – through Christ – predestined those who will come to salvation. It is entirely His own doing and is never dependent on man’s “free will” whether he accepts or rejects Christ. Now, the more important implication of this is that we as believers are not in any way knowledgeable of who is elect and who is not. Thus, we ought to proclaim the gospel to everyone and at all times. Election/predestination should be the least of our concerns and we must be more concerned about doing the Great Commission.
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Salvation is presented to all the people but must choice…God doesn’t chooce who comes to Him or not….the subject about ” determinism and free will” must be studied with much care…..choice is the fundamental in the work of salvation
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Here is the thing, we live in this tiny piece of time we call now, in it we have our being, everything we do, we do only here. God is not limited to our now, but in time, our now He calls on us to make choices, and we do. We can choose to obey, and we can choose to disobey, we can love, we can hate, we can follow the Lord in obedience or pretend to. We have been given the ability to love others or only ourselves. In now, these things occur, and we can see the results in our past, and we can trust God for our future.
While we live out our lives, we do not see the beginning from the end; God does, and because He does, He can speak about things not yet as though they are in the past. He, by His divine grace, has opened the door for our salvation, Jesus Christ did this for us, those who come to Him are saved by Him and for Him. For us in the now we are told, today is the day we should not harden our hearts (Hebrews), being made in the image of God we have choices He has given us the ability to make, every one of us is making them, He doesn’t force us out of the love and respect He has given to all people. Still, we will go forward with the desires we have obeyed, either by loving God and each other, or rejecting Him. Provisions for all choices made are made ready when we leave this life we go where we want to, towards God, or not.
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Actually hell made for satan but people chooose to obey satan than God in the beginning even God already warned them… But because God love us, God give away by Giving His son Jesus Christ for us to be back on Him… We are the reason why Jesus came as a man and God to rescue us from Hell… Thats why were so bless than those fallen angel who follow satan…. Hebrews 2:16 ►
New International Version
For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.New Living Translation
We also know that the Son did not come to help angels; he came to help the descendants of Abraham.English Standard Version
For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. -
The perfect example of election is Paul on the road to Damascus. He was on his way to kill and imprison Christians and God stopped him in his tracks and saved him. He wasn’t seeking God. God chose him. He was perfectly content doing what he was doing. Why God Sovereignly chooses some and passes over others is none of our business. Our command is to repent and believe! We all deserve hell because we transgress against a holy God. ( sin) We are all dead in trespasses and sins. But God regenerates us makes us alive and enables us to believe and trust in him. If you think salvation is up to you, you have a high view of man and a low view of God. You’re robbing God of his glory.
John 6:44
John 15:16 -
God wants everyone to be save John 3:16. The problem is not God but man. Rom. 3:10-13. God wants everyone to be save but man rejects God.
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Elect:
ADJECTIVE-Dative, Singular, Feminine
– grc –
Strongs nt:1588ἐκλεκτός {ek-lek-tos’}
ἐκλεκτός from ἐκλέγομαι; select; by implication, favorite: chosen, elect.
Favored and chosen. God is clear, He has chosen to save everyone who believes on His Son Jesus. By doing so we enter into God’s will, thereby becoming favored and chosen.
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?
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This is an apologetics group not a theology group. Why is this being discussed here? Go to Soteriology 101 or something like that for this.
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The disconnect comes from the understanding of the use of the word elect or election. You research the Greek words used for elect/election the root of both meanings is to choose. There is a double application to that, one from God’s point of view and the other is man’s point of view. On God’s side, yes there is a predestined determined promise of God to the elect aka those chosen. God predestined those that come to Christ to be rewarded with eternal life. Just like it’s predestined those not under the blood eternal damnation. That’s the presentation part everyone gets hung up on. That predestination literally is available to all humanity.
Now let’s look at man’s point of view of election/elect. While God has predestined all who are in Christ (the elect, chosen) to be rewarded, God never took away man’s free will choice of that promise. Meaning this is offered to whosoever will, that however doesn’t mean all will take it. Many will reject (elect to, choose to) turn away God’s predestined outcome for those who accept Christ.
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Some whom are commenting do not understand original sin, predestination, foreknowledge or election. Which are ALL taught in the Bible.
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Jesus who is God died for the sins of the whole world so that whosoever BELIEVETH in him shall be saved
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Pharaoh had a specific purpose, romans says it.
The Lord creates vessels for mercy and vessels for wrath. HE gets glory from both.
You say this is unfair, but who is the Lords counselor??
You think your ways are higher than His? He is perfect in everyway.
In some crazy, perfect way, the people who are going to hell deserve to be there. They rejected the Lord, He knew they would. How that works I don’t think we can comprehend.
You think the Almighty creator of the universe doesnt know who His people are???
Like Hes gonna be surprised by who makes it to heaven?? He the beginning and the end. All knowing. All powerful.
We have such a low view of the Lord. -
“MAN HAS A FREE WILL TO GO TO HELL BUT NOT TO GO TO HEAVEN “.
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CALVANIST!!!!!
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It depends whether a person is infralapsarian, sublapsarisn or supralapsarian. Chew on that a while.
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So this is a distinction between armenianism and Calvinism but really there’s no conflict here.
Jesus plainly said some are chosen some are called.
He also said that some are predestined to hell Judas for example.The way Paul washer explains this is that let’s say there’s five guys looking for work and I go and I hire two of those people did I in some way wrong the other three people?
Furthermore the hinge point of this entire argument is that somehow men deserve to go to heaven which is absolutely not true none of us deserve to go to heaven not a single one of us We all are full of sin and imperfection and violence furthermore it we under estimate how much we actually hate God.
The fact that God allows some of us to go to heaven is beyond anything we could ever hope for It it takes God to do that.
looking at what the Bible actually says instead of what we think the Bible says or looking at what Jesus said as fact reduces all of these arguments to a moot point.
It’s man to confuses the Bible It’s not the Bible that confuses man. -
We who believe will all be in Heaven.
There are some who rise above God’s expectations.
They will have a special place in the Kingdom. -
You can say that yes. The potter or the Creator has that freedom. However, people who are destined for Hell are also responsible in some way for charting their own course there.
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Big reason why I’m not a Christian anymore
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First, no human can fully understand God
Second, when we interpret don’t explain anything contradict to God’s love! -
The bible should not be taken more seriously than a piece of poetic literature.
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How does anyone know if they are elect (i.e. Elite)?
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Yup, predestination includes reprobation.
And the context of 2 Pt 3:9 is the elect. -
So, then, why do the elect still sin?
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People can go to heaven if they accept their ticket….God does not force people into His presence on earth before death, and He will not do it after death.
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No that’s double predestination
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God knows who are His 2 Tim 2:19
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And yet Scripture does say God does not dezire that end so human logic in this area of understanding is simply wrong. God’s ways are not our ways and his thohghts not our thoughts. His is simply contradicting us in this point as he often does.
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For those of you who believe in election? What is being suggested? Should we reject scripture?
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Perhaps we need to go back to the original language and find out what God meant in that day by predestined. I also believe that he sends the offer of the gift of salvation to any and all who would believe according to John 316, whosoever will. Predestined meaning God knows ahead of time who will except him and who won’t. It is our choice. God created hell for the devil and his angels and if we go there it’s because we chose not to believe, trust, love, and obey Jesus Christ
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Depends on whether one believes in double predestination or not … Yes God has raised up vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath .. The Sctiptures teach this … But the Scriptures also teach that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked too .. .and like verses .. I believe that its more of a passing over … Letting them go thier own way …God never actively creates evil in the hearts of any of His creation .. people are damned because they are guilty and deserve it .. Grace is never owed .. But justice is .. Its wonderous teastament to great grace of God that He chose any of us in Christ .. and ensured that some woyld be saved.
There is a line .. A ballance one must keep to the doctrines of grace …or we make God out to be evil or creating evil … and that is simply never the case …
We are like a bunch of vicious dirty stinking lemmings running of a cliff of sin .. While attacking Him on the way ..and God in his grace chooses to save a few .. By and for His own good pleasure .. and for His own glory -
Election is the foundation of Salvation
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Regarding the OP: Yes. God is sovereign regarding salvation.
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