All #ourCOG News 5.0
How do we respond to something like this – the facts stand as a gruesome reminder….
Discussion
50 comments
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I could cite at least a dozen or more Christian missionaries, off the top of my head, that came here to the Dakotas, Minnesota and Montana in the mid to late 1800’s that took no part in any form of genocide or cruelty described in this meme. As a Christian and yes, as a Native I love to debate this kind of misinformation.
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If they were killing, they WERE NOT Christians. The gospel never said to kill.
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Only thing worse than fake news is fake history.
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The Christian religion came to Norway, and my ancestors believed in Jesus Christ, and now by the Grace of the “Great Spirit”, I am believer in God and His son, Jesus Christ, and I trust completely in the 66 books of the Bible.
Christianity is not a white mans religion. It started with brown men, and then spread to every color and race. I am glad to be in that number.
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This is exactly how Satan works as an angel of light devouring people to believe that true Christianity is evil therefore they deny the God we worship as a loving God. The only thing we can do to reverse this to some extent is show them who deny,
love unconditionally. -
Largely false accusation, but not entirely.
Still, you don’t judge a worldview by those who fail to live up to its standards. You should judge it by the standards themselves. -
You can not look at history through the lenses of present day. When studying history you need to understand the roles played in context of time. You also can’t assume a saving knowledge of Christ in every man who claims to be a Christian. This may be misunderstood by those outside the church but within the church we should be able to discern true Christian behavior. Then there are the times when a believer is given an order. It’s not always in his control.
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Weren’t they murdering each other for land and kidnapping each others children to use in human sacrifice and that sort of thing?
People swear like the Native Americans were all peace loving tree-huggers and not warlike humans like everyone else.
We came, we saw land that we wanted, and we conquered it from the weaker native people. Such is the way of mankind from ancient times. Its an ugly reality, but a reality nonetheless.
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There’s a doc I saw of a Native American Indian woman that said her people were way worse that what the colonials brought. Evil exists no matter where you go.
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That’s pretty one-sided. American Indians did their share of indiscriminate killing. You can’t judge Christianity for what white men did without judging Native religions for the same deeds committed by Indians. Can they pay the whites back for all the scalps their ancestors took? I don’t owe anyone any more apology than a Commanche would owe me for the deaths of my people. People need to get over history. You can’t change it. Learn from it and move on.
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I suspect the people written about in the meme weren’t Christians.
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The victim narrative is used by anyone who would lump a people together so as to make everyone evil of that group. All men are sinners! Christ saves sinners and changes men’s hearts. White, Red, Black or whatever, we all need Jesus!
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The people who hold the Bibles in their hands, the people in the Bible who enact the many stories of the Bible and the people who are being reached out to, have one thing in common SIN. We must find a way of drawing everyone’s attention to the ONE WITHOUT SIN rather than to all of us and perhaps our forefathers who were exceedingly sinful but who thankfully received GRACE. God will sort out the rest after our temporary existence here on Earth. True Love always finds a way.
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Ownership wasn’t understood by the natives. They traded their land away but got mad when they came to take it back because it was more like a lease to them. Hence the term Indian giver. The diseases was obviously unintentional due to lack of knowledge. Christians are commanded to spread the gospel. Simple. Stop trying to incite whatever you’re trying to incite.
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First I would say that no Christian alive today would do any of that. Then I would explain the problem with examining history through current social norms. Then I would tell him who Jesus is and how his believers do not condone the way native Americans were treated.
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This is what every nation has done before. The Indians fought and destroyed each other over land before the White men came. However other conquest and conquering of peoples and nations aren’t spoken of. If you asked yourself why it may enlarger your political understanding. The goal is to make America evil along with white people. Reading the Bible you will also notice the Israel was formed by the destruction of the nations and people that were on that land before the Israel conquered at GOD’s direction for HE makes borders and nations.
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The missionaries did not come with guns or Whiskey but as history proved time and again the people chose the guns and the Whiskey instead of Christ. Besides there will be a marginal few Chritians in Heaven as the Word says many will try but FEW will be chosen.
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this post way oversimplifies this “you people” and “our people” arguments. Many people from many lands were coming into the new world, just because you lived in the land didn’t mean you had a right to kill strangers and “invaders”. Conflict is part of all histories of every land. It is very compicated and there are many innocent victims, much evil on every side. Stop making it so black and white…
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There’s a notion out there that every white explorer was a Christian. There’s another notion that Somehow tree worshipping savages can somehow make it to heaven
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Yes there was alot of terrible atrocities done under the guise of christianity, Does not mean that they were necessarily Christian. There had been alot of damage done before the reformation by the catholic church and alot of people were just social Christians. We only hear about that cuz cuz it fits the narrative for the ruler of this world. And those people will have to answer for what they did. The whole premise for do not carry the Lords name in vein is do not misrepresent Him…But there was also alot of good going on in that time as well that we dont hear where I would say true Christian’s “Christ followers” were loving the natives even going back to the Spaniards. God always preserves a remnant of His people. So I would say it’s not about the natives or the whites, both did terrible things even before the Europeans got there, it’s a heart issue and it’s now time to try and bring peace where we can. “Blessed are the peace makers…”
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Because those early settlers were doing it wrong
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We need to ask, “what is the Native American actually objecting to?” (1) Is it disease? No, the naturalist world view would suggest that disease is simply part of this world, and with trade and globalization happening — sooner or later the Native Americans would have encountered the diseases. (We know something about that today, don’t we?) (2) Is it the guns = one people group taking land from another people group? No, otherwise the same argument would be held against the Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and any culture that expanded their own control at the expense of other cultures around them. And even the Native American tribes would war with each other over land. So, I’m thinking it is (3), the “arrogance to call us godless savages”. As a Christian Apologist then, we would address the question, “why do we believe Christianity to be a far more likely source of truth than the animistic beliefs of the Native Americans? I think that is the core of the issue — agree/disagree?
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This country was mostly not populated. This wasn’t anyone’s property. Besides different tribes were always attacking other tribes and taking what wasn’t theirs.
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Before the advent of the Europeans, top to bottom, in North and South America, there was constant internecine tribal warfare, human sacrifice, slavery and cannibalism between the various native Indian tribes. For example, the day that Hernan Cortez entered the Aztec capital, thinking he resembled a returning god in his armour who would bring an end to drought, the Aztecs sacrificed 17,000 children to him on their highest pyramid temple. Coincidentally, the skies opened and the rains came that same day.
Were there atrocities committed by the Europeans? Absolutely, in fact, mistakes were being made with good intentions up until as little as 50 years ago.
But to say that the native Indians had a utopian paradise going on here pre-colonization is simply not true. They were already doing to each other for thousands of years what we did to them.
While it is too Machiavellian even for me to say that what is good for us must also be good for them, the advent of Christianity did more good than harm to the Native Indians here. -
Savages? Native tribes would kill and scalp each other alive…
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The premise is a fallacy. It implies that the Native Americans were living peaceful and harmoniously with each other. It implies that knew and understood germ theory long before it was discovered.
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Well as one who is First Nations … And a Christian … I try to let my brothers know that God should not be blamed for the sinfulness of man … and the atrocities were done in the name of false Christianity … Ie the whore of Babylon (Roman Catholicism) and her harlot daughters .. which have nothing to do with true Biblical Christianity … do not try to ignore or explain away the horrible sins committed in residential schools and such … that will only put up more walls … Get educated on why there is the bitterness … And believe me it is not unfounded
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Just because someone is clutching a Bible doesn’t mean they are a Christian. If they are not Christ-like …
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That’s just a ridiculously one sided presentation. There was cruelty and evil on both sides. But the idea that the Indians were somehow peaceful is simply false – they were slaughtering each other most cruel while it was just them. And it’s equally important silly to pretend that Europeans were universally agressors (peaceful dealings initiated by whites were haru uncommon), or that those who were agressors were the more specifically religious. (The reverse seems more to have been the case.)
But the most ridiculous thing about this post is including thge Bible on a list of instruments of aggression. As though sharing the Gospel was an act of cruelty. When in actuality it is the natural thing to do if you valye and care for someone. The post isn’t blaming them for sharing the gospel badly, but pretending that doing so at all is an attack.
And that just shows hostility to Christianity in any form, no matter who brings it.
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You can’t paint a whole race with one paintbrush…
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I have a Native American friend who recognizes the truth of the Christian Gospel. As is the case with most people groups, he is in the minority. God has a place in His heart for remnants who humbly come to Him in repentance and faith.
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Christianity is pagan by nature
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“White Europeans” is not synonymous with “Christian”, so this guy is mistaken. Nor where natives peaceful people. They were warring tribes just as savage as the tribes of Europe, the tribes of Africa, and the tribes of Asia.
Christians are those who follow Christ, and Christ is not the “White guy” with a beard and a halo around his head.
Those false ideas would be a start. So there is nothing factual about this post.
Those are not, and never where “your people”.
It is RACIST to put ALL people of a lighter skin color under 1 banner, whites are NOT a “people”, neither where the Natives a “people”, but both were many peoples, many tribes, and many nations, with varying motives and agendas.The true story Pocahontas tells how an actually native women saw “Christianity” from the perspective of someone who knew native life. Needless to say, she embraced Christianity the rest of her life and refused to go back to the Native life when she had the chance.
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So either he is extremely ticked off with Christianity, or the creation of Christianity and religion is just all part of the evolution process. If it’s the latter then he really has no reason to be angry because it was natural selection being played out. His people lacked the genetics and ability to evolve to be more powerful than the oppressors in physical and mental traits. Their lack of mental strategies lead for them to not even devise and practice a religion that could have helped them in not being wiped out or enslaved by a superior group. When it’s all said and done he would just need to accept that his people were born inferior and therefore born to lose. Moral compassion, morality, and a call for justice just doesn’t fit into evolution and darwinism unless you are trying to be opinionated and subjective and not objectively scientific.
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It’s similar to the history books that say that hitler was a Christian , not true but still believed by many because they are ignorant of scripture and true Christianity. While what happened to the American Indians was horrible their is more to the story. There were Christian missionaries who were on the frontiers befriending Indians sometimes for years .Some Indians even became Christian. Cherokee people accepted Christ and were peaceful with whites but then greedy men found out their was gold in their land , this news spread to greedy leaders who took the land for the gold . The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. These men weren’t Christians if they claimed so then they were hypocrites!
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But the actions of sinners doesn’t invalidate the truth of the gospel.
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Well I mean you also continually backstabbed us and scalped our wives and children. First of all. Misinformation.
Second, Christianity was misunderstood for centuries, even by Christians themselves. Sometimes those who carry a Bible don’t believe or practice what’s in it. -
It’s like an emotional Strawman Argument. There are so many flaws with the argument.
First, just because one claims a faith doesn’t mean the faith tells them to take those actions. Just like we don’t reject science just because Dr. Mengele applied it in a horrible way.
Second, what is the terminus in history for the spread of humanity onto lands they did not own? Prior to coming to America, Rome, Vikings, Visagoths, Moors, and all sorts of people invaded Western Europe. But prior to that, there were all sorts of conquest of lands. How far do we go back to find the original source of humanity? At what point did the spread of humanity become entrenched in a way that made all human advancement after that point was immoral?
Third, do people believe that rage the same way against modern examples of this? China into Tibet? Russia into Georgia?
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Nothing in the bible supports Europeans destroying native Americans. Did they need the gospel? Very much so. But the gospel doesn’t come bearing muskets and disease
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How do we respond to history? Well maybe we could learn from it or…I know let’s use it to trash Christians…
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Even among the Europeans, there were those who were killed because of the Christ Jesus. The fact that some carried Bible and preached doesn’t mean that they pleased GOD
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Many people call themselves Christians but they are not and don’t even read/study their bibles.
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Thousands of good Christians worked tirelessly to better the lives of native Americans
But we only hear of the few misguided souls who harmed them
Maybe a better question would be
Why is history writers so biased against Christians -
I’m native American I used to think like this . Then I heard of the praying Indians . The 300 Indians converted to Christianity were brought to deer island in Massachusetts to starve to death . Rev John Eliot an Englishman found out he brought them food . When the pilgrims caught him they sank his boat he drowned trying to save them . Eliot was a good English Christian
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To me this is mostly a political post, one of the many political correct hot topics. does not relate to apologetics or the gospel at least not directly. This narrative is being pushed about celebrating victim mentality. So the more victim status you have the higher you are on the totem pole. if you’re black think of yourself as a victim, if you’re a woman you have been oppressed or if you’re short, or any other disadvantage that you can think of in life, there’s thousands of victim groups you can pick from. In my country communism was brought in by painting a victim mentality, you’re being oppressed by the rich, please revolt against your oppressors. You need big brother government to protect you with a communist state. There you will have total equality, everyone equally poor. The fact of the matter is everyone has some disadvantage in life, but the healthy thing is not to think of yourself as a victim and blame someone. The answer is not big brother government to be the answer to your every problem, but individuals being brave and strong, despite each one of us having some disadvantage. Strong individual character and faith is the answer not government.
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Is there any nation on this earth that has not conquered another for its lands and/or resources?
Even among so called indigenous people their histories are mostly covered in blood.
Many of them took slaves, raped, pillaged, murdered in the name of conquest. -
This would be painting all settlers with a broad brush. It is unfortunate that this happened, but we are putting all of history in the same mixing bowl, instead of looking at each individual event
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Horrible things have been done in the name of Christ over the centuries, From Rome to the White House. OWN IT. “In the name of” is the key. There have always been, just as there are today, many, many people who claim Christ but do not know Him. Who fly the flag of the Kingdom of God but have never met the King. Our only hope is to continue to point to the beauty and perfection of Jesus Christ and to confess and own the sins of “professing” Christians.
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