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I’m interested to hear the views of believers on this. But how do you address when people claim your view is unscientific if you doubt evolution or the earth being millions and millions of years old for example?
Discussion
59 comments
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It’s not my view it’s the view of the living God as revealed in His scriptures.
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Read stuff from The Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis.
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They know just as much as you do. We dont know how old the earth is. You have faith in God, they have faith in science. None of us were there when the earth was created. I’ve heard that carbon dating is flawed and earth may actually be much younger than originally believed.
Science is constantly being disproven over and over again. Look at the food pyramid in the fifties. Um what. Chocolate is bad for you, oh now it’s good for you. There is plenty of science that backs the bible, particularly from a historical point! Historians know Jesus lived, but many dont think he was divine in any way.
People think they ‘know’ something they were taught or told but they dont realize its blind faith, just like the faith some criticize Christians for having when it comes to God.
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This is why it is called the “theory” of evolution and I would say, ” which theory are you referring to because there is more than 1 theory. Right there it falls apart right before their eyes.
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You could say that the only reason they believe the age of Universe or any of the generally accepted timelines is because we all agree that things like the Speed of Light and Decay Rates are constant throughout history.
We do not know if the those things were constant we just assume they were because recently (very very recently) we have observed them being consistent.
However, I read recently that a paper was published by a team of physicists providing calculations claiming that the Speed of Light is not constant throughout time. It was in fact much faster in the past. They claim that there is a disconnect between Physics and Quantum Physics. They just don’t line up and there is a search to reconcile them. This paper claims that by making this adjustment it takes meaningful steps to reconciling that difference.
If they are proved true (which will take time), then the Universe is much younger than anyone has previously believed.
Also, I would highly suggest that you read “Seven Days that Divided the World” by Dr. John Lennox. He’s a triple doctorate from Oxford that dives deeply into the Creation account in Genesis.
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Abiogenesis is about as unscientific as it gets but many scientists (and atheists) believe in it. A lot of them don’t have a problem with things being unscientific so much as a problem with God being real.
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I use science to show how thier view has less validity than the Christian view.
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How do people know how to date something to be millions years old? I start questioning this because I’ve seen evidence that Dinosaur may in fact live during ancient civilization. This website is an prefect example evidence are all over the world and yet we have to believe in scientist claiming themselves to have the real truth. People should questioning their validity because there are nothing more than a gatekeeper of lies. https://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/historical/ancient/dinosaur/
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Evolutionists play a kind of game. They claim that evolution is just change in species. Creationists believe changes occur, but canines don’t into bears. Life did not rise through spontaneous generation to single cell to multiple cell to the various kinds of plants, animals, and men. Normally there are a few weaknesses in the theory of evolution that can be attacked: mutation, speciation, natural selection, and the absence of intermediate types in the fossil record shows evolution is statistically impossible and the fossil record doesn’t show it happened.
Ken Ham with Answers in Genesis or the Institute For Creation Research can provide materials for defeating evolution and the dating methods. -
Ask them which Evolution they were talking about micro or macro evolution it’s their case to defend it’s not your case to reproach or disprove them
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Chris and Lucy entered a building looking for Manuel. In a room they found a note and a lighted candle. Chris looked at the note and read it aloud:
“Hi! It’s 2:30, and I’m leaving to run some errands. I’ll be back in a couple of hours. BTW, the electricity is out, so I lit a candle for you. -Manuel”.
Then Lucy said, “I know how we can find out how long it’s been since he left! Look, the candle has been burning since he lit it and has a significant amount of wax that’s melted and dripped down. If we figure out what the rate is which the wax is melting and measure the amount of wax that has thus far dripped, we can work backwards to find out how long it has been since he left.”
Chris said, “Why waste your time? The note says he left at 2:30.” Lucy said, “Don’t believe everything you read.” Chris replied, “Look, I’ve known Manuel for a long time, and this is his handwriting. Don’t be ridiculous.”
Lucy replied, “Ah yes, but what does he *mean* by ‘2:30’? A note like that is subject to interpretation. Suppose he was talking about another time zone or something.” And so a short philosophical argument ensued about the note.
However, Lucy prevailed and insisted on performing the measurement and calculations.
A few minutes later, Lucy announced: “Well, I’ve got bad news for us.
Based on the amount of wax that has melted and the rate at which the wax is melting, I can confidently tell you that it has been at least one whole day since this guy left. He was probably talking about 2:30 yesterday. And since he said that he’d be back ‘in a couple of hours’, we can assume that something happened to him and he’s not coming back at all. So much for your ‘note’.
Just then, Manuel walked in. Lucy said, “Are you this guy ‘Manuel’? What took you so long?” Manuel replied, “What are you talking about? I left you guys a note saying I’d be back in a couple of hours. It hasn’t even been that long.” Lucy said, “Never mind the note. I measured the amount of wax that has dripped off your candle, and the rate which the wax was melting. I know you’ve been gone since yesterday.”
Manuel replied, “First of all, that candle isn’t burning anywhere near as brightly as when I first lit it. Second of all, I didn’t light a new candle, but a used one. And thirdly, I used another candle to light this candle and in the process the wax from that candle spilled all over this one.”
Lucy said, “So you set up that candle to deceive us, to make it look like you left the room over a day ago, when in fact it’s been less than a couple of hours.” Manuel replied, “Look, I left you a note telling you when I left. I never intended for you to conduct some silly experiment measuring wax dripping off of a candle to figure out when I left. I put the candle there so you guys would have some light.”
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No one can know the time of beginning and ending. Only God knows. I have heard bible scholars saying there is a gap of time between Gen. 1:1 and Gen 1:2… for all we know, that ‘in the beginning” of Gen 1:1 could be trillions of years. Thank God for our all knowing God. We the body of Christ are from eternity (endless life) we are now living eternity in time and then we will end back in eternity because we have eternal life
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On what basis can you trust your cognitive faculties if there is no God, and we are all products of blind evolution? Also the Bible doesnt say how old the earth is. YEC is based on one interpretation of Genesis and calculating back the genealogy. A lot of assumption in YEC.
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If the evolution was true, how can you imagine that once in your life you become a MONKEY? ?
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You can’t fix spiritually blind and they aren’t Christian so why care? If they are ‘Christian’, inform them they aren’t saved so they really aren’t Christian. ?♂️
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I disagree with evolution, macroevolution that is. I do not disagree with the idea of the big bang. There’s tons of scientific evidence that point to the big bang and it awesome makes a great talking point for an origin of the universe. I do not subscribe to the idea that there are six literal days of creation found in the book of Genesis. I mainly do not believe this because the book of Genesis does not claim to be a science book nor does it claim the days to be literal days (there is the day age theory, etc). However if they say that my belief is unscientific or irrational, and that the Bible is untrue or inaccurate, I simply asked them “What brought you to that conclusion?” usually they make these statements as blanket statements just to throw you off guard. If they do happen to give you reasons for why the Christianity is unscientific or irrational then you move from there. General rule of thumb though, all truth is God’s truth. That means that the big bang did really happen, it is always been true with God that the big bang happened. We just happen to know who banged it.
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Such a broad statement, this is one of the deepest subjects to debate. Pray and educate yourself before ever attempting to try and change an unbeliever, or they will eat you up.
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I am a believer, I also believe that the universe is between 13-15 billion years old. I believe that the earth is between 3-5 billion years old. While I don’t believe in macro evolution, I do believe in micro evolution.
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Read “Tactics” by Greg Koukl
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Well there is one good thing about the differences of opinion, none of this makes is ineligible for the kingdom. As long as we believe in the gospel, have repented of our sins we are brothers and sisters in Christ so let’s continue to be obedient.
God bless you all -
There are some subjects that we can agree on, and that opens doors for us with unbelievers to have healthy discussions that can change their hearts and minds towards God.
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Mark Jones, in terms of “unscientific” they should clarify what they means by the statement? Are they referring to the scientific method? If so, than most theories about the beginning of time and the origins of the universe passed on and taught in colleges and universities fall into the same category. The reason is that such theories are not testable, repeatable or observable.
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Don’t care what they think
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Thats easy, philosophical and scientific evidence has crushed evolutionary theory. Evolution is not compatible with thermodynamics & there are no transitional species in the fossil record.
Furthermore the big bang began to exist, everything that exists has a causation outside itself, therefore the universe cannot be self creating, therefore there must have been a cause (God) outside of the universe to bring it into being.
If not, than the “science” says all time space and matter resulted from an explosion, which requires time, space, and matter to be in existence already for an explosion to happen.
I wont even get into the fine tuning for life or the laws of nature, or dna information.
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Evolution is unscientific … .chances and accidents are unreasonable and ambigous ..
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There is a fine line between addressing questions and defending vain Trolling arguments. Like
Lia Dearing-Berenguer posted, study, educate or be consumed. There is very much to prepare to make viable eloquent defences for so many attacks. Creation Science Institute, Duane Gish, Ken Ham have wonderful resources to start. It helps to enjoy the scientific chemistry, geology, physics, astronomy fields and have enough accurate understanding with science not to embarrass.
https://www.icr.org/ -
I believe the philosophy of science first needs to be understood by the person. After that, they need a thorough understanding of how records of lineage were kept by the ancient Israelites. I think the discussion ought to have those 2 things as prerequisites.
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in genesis chapter 6 it state there was giants in the land. since you bring up evolution, then I want to talk about enoch and other lost books of the bible.the 200 watchers that god earth to watch mankind had sex with the daughters of man and cause mutations where there was not enough food to feed. some grew as high 400 feet. that is where your skeletons come. god sent 4 of his arch anjels to destroy them. I would be lieve that before iwould believe evolution
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The same evidence that evolutionists use to prove their theory is the same evidence that creationists use to prove their belief. It all comes down to Worldview. Whatever presuppositions you approach the evidence with will influence your final conclusion of which one is correct.
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It’s totally OK and not in any way wrong to be EOC….old earth creationist. I’m one and I personally believe some of the most spectacular evidence for the God of the Bible can be seen in the Big Bang origin of the universe! I’d check out Hugh Ross over at Reasons to Believe before totally discounting the “old earth” viewpoint. It’s actually kind of crazy to think about how the multiple (yes not just in Genesis) creation texts of the Bible told us exactly what science would only find out multiple centuries later!
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Churches for centuries killed scientists for heresy if any discovery did not jive with the bible. Today they mostly try to ignore it or explain it away. Some agree with the scientific evidence and say it correct. Just depends on the type of indoctrination they received.
When I was a christian the apologetic used was a day in god’s time could be billions of years.
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I will treat it cool and maintain my stand based on the holy scripture. If the person will stay , then I won him, but if it is not , it’s not my fault nor my problem anymore because his standard must be beyond what the holy scripture holds.
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Why do scientists say there is a creator? Why are they looking for the “god particle”? Where do Giants fit in? Darwin disproved his own theory as well, but they don’t tell you that. Again, it’s a “theory”, so it’s not fact.
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If the basis of my belief is unscientific , it is due to science limited capacity to prove it. Let’s not go far beyond counting millions/infinite number of years. Let’s start at home. If science can quantify or scientifically calculate the love I have for my father, then I would say science can then disprove my belief.
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It needs tremendous humility and great intelligence to settle this issue.
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Go to Creation.com. Over 13,000 articles written by Ph.D Scientists, fully referenced. Over 3,000 articles on the Global Flood. Articles mostly written at High Scool level. The Media link has approximately 250 x 1 minute films on various Scientific topics. This one on Mount Everest and the Marine Fossils at the top is one example, also lots on You tube. https://creation.com/media-center/youtube/marine-fossils-on-mount-everest
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Don’t fall for their sophistry. The dating methods are deeply flawed. They use the term “millions of years” as if it’s fact. IT isn’t. Furthermore, increasingly, scientists are beginning to doubt the authenticity of evolution as a theory. It’s just not possible. Books I’d recommend are “Darwin’s House of Cards” and “Rocks aren’t clocks”. Amazon them.
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Use science to disprove pseudoscience.
There are plenty of scientists who explore these topics with an unbiased view of mainstream science. -
I have no problem with the age of the earth being 1 minute old, 1 hour old, 1000 years old or 1 gazillion years old. God still made it.
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Science doesn’t always get it right! At school I was taught there were 9 planets in our solar system- now there’s only 8! Carbon dating parameters have been changed at least once since their invention. Apparently at least 10% of the correct answers on QI TV quiz are later proven to be false.
The Word of God has never changed. The truth in the bible is still as accurate today as then! All science and archeology have done so far is proven the bible correct NOT incorrect! Conclusion- the bible is far more reliable than science! -
Science ALWAYS gets it right – people may take time to discover what is right
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They try to prove evolution to the basic core of chromosomal similarity between ape and man ….. And until now science prove itself that evolution of-man is Negative
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Therefore the argument of evolution(man) is only a hypothethical suggestion with plenty of scientific evidence to prove ii Genetically wrong .. until today 2020
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Thanks everyone for the comments so far … I’ll try to get to them today to read them all and respond. I posted this before going to bed, so I have a lot of catching up to do 🙂
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Many times when people tell you this , it is a statement, not a question. So, I ask them to see whether they are interested in the answer or they are just trying to stump me. If they want to know genuinely, I would move to dialogue. If they don’t want to know, then I don’t engage. I feel this is a non-answer , but I would recommend you watch cold case Christianity on YouTube and Crossexamined in addition to John Lennox, Ravi Zacharias on YouTube (specially how they do their question and answers after the lectures). It will help you tons!
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With regard to the evolutionists I usually ask if they can provide me with any evidence for evolution that I don’t have to accept by faith, which of course they can’t.
A common response is to go on the attack and ask for a proof from the Bible. My most common reply is “sure, the first book of the Bible, Genesis, tells us that God made all the birds, animals and plants to reproduce after their own kind, which is exactly what we find in the fossil record. That’s how we know that a fossil octopus for example, is allegedly, according to evolutionists, millions of years old, is actually an octopus. It looks like an octopus because nothing has changed, i.e. It hasn’t evolved. -
Here’s an excellent article I just read. It was helpful to me.
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Turn the question around! If the Bible is unscientific, how did it accurately state that the Universe is expanding (Ps104:2)? Or that the earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7)? Or that the earth is round (Is 40:22, Job 26:10)? Yes, micro and macro evolution are different only if the term evolution is applied to both. There is a difference between evolution and adaptation, which many attach evolution to the term adaptation to attempt to stand on its merit. Chaos does not product order and the language of this world is math, which is absolute order.
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Those are two separate ideas.
Evolution: are you asking about macroevolution or microevolution? Two different topics, one science proves and doesn’t take away from religion at all. The other is a theory which even nonbelieving scientists are not all behind.
Age of the earth:
There are young earth Christians and old earth Christians. So depending on who you ask that question to, you will get a different response.
I’m definitely willing to have conversations with you about it 🙂 -
I do not believe the earth is old. Just as Adam was created with age from the beginning, so the earth and Universe were created with age from the beginning. Science requires a measurement, observation and another measurement. Not theory, but science and as God asked Job, I ask “Were any of us there in the beginning to take that original measurement? If not, it is a theory and not science.
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I would point out how science points to a perfect, caring Creator, and mention biblical references that mention scientific facts that would not be “discovered” until centuries later.
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Evolution is not science. It’s not logical. It’s a mythology like the Greek and Roman Gods.
Christians who pretend it is a science do a disservice to the advancement of science.
Evolutionism is a religion that masquerades as a science.
The empirical evidence shows that there is nothing in the Natural World that could have produced the kind of world we live in. Your only conclusion, once you have studied nature and understand the law of cause and effect, is that whatever started the whole system cannot be the system itself and must be outside the system, I.e. the Supernatural.
Once you allow for the Supernatural, all bets are off. The Christian has a head start because he know the Resurrection of Jesus was wholly a supernatural event.
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Thats a Big problem, there is way too much evidence for common decent and 4.8 billion years. Need better arguments than from a guy like Hovind who is so easy to refute
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I’ll be honest, the young earth, 7 day creation is the bit of apologetics I’ve struggled with the most. Evolution – no problem at all – easily pulled apart.
Young earth 7 day…. that’s a harder one for me to try and get my head round. Any help much appreciated!!!
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