This seems to be a very controversial topic at the moment and I’d love to hear what y’all have to say about it!
“once saved always saved”
Yes or no?
Forgive me if this was recently posted or posted often, I didn’t see it if it was.
Any scriptures would be greatly appreciated if you have them.
Discussion
50 comments
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This question is a trick from the enemy can you see it doesn’t really matter once saved always saved Are you safe now Then you need to seek a deeper relationship with Christ.
If you are not saved then you need to get a relationship with Christ and then make it deeper and deeper and deeper.
once saved always saved serves no purpose whatsoever It doesn’t matter if it’s true or false at all This is just another thing that we can divide and fight about instead of unifying and saying let me know Christ more and more. -
John 10:27-30 English Standard Version (ESV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,[a] is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”Ephesians 1:13-14 English Standard Version (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee[a] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[b] to the praise of his glory.Acts 13:48 English Standard Version (ESV)
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.Psalm 65:4 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 Blessed is the one you choose and bring near,
to dwell in your courts!
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house,
the holiness of your temple! -
“If you could lose your salvation you would”
-John MacArthur -
Absolutely yes!
The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are oyne.” The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins — past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24; among others(2)
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It seems to me, if you think you are saved and you can sin all you want your not really saved. Also, if you think you are saved and can lose your salvation you are not saved.
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No. “He who endures until the end shall be saved.” Matthew 24:13
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https://www.gotquestions.org/perseverance-saints.html
THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSES OF PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS. To argue against it, you must first be ready to explain these verses carefully. This is the real meaning of once saved, always saved. That phrase was adopted to mean that those with true conversions don’t abandon the faith, that God doesn’t abandon them, and that salvation is forever. Many apostates come from false conversions, but true saints persevere. One of the clearest statements is that when we know that God does the work of change in us, and it’s not we ourselves that make us more righteous, that He is changing the desires of our hearts in true conversion, that He then promises: “the good work that God began in you will be completed”
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No! Should someone make a conscious decision to reject Christ, why would anyone assume that person is saved just because they once were… although I would question weather that person was ever really saved – considering God knows the end from the beginning.
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Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.A true believer is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
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Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.This is the elect!
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This is why I’m confused… Lol. There are two extremes that both sides have scriptures for and strong beliefs in it. I was not raised in a church, but when i got older and had a child I began seeking Him on my own. The pastor there did believe in OSAS. but almost 30 years have past and I am starting to dig into this subject and I find myself swaying in the direction of you can choose to not live for Him and backslide, fall away. Why else would the word say to repent to the backsliders? Or to help our brother that has fallen away, plus many other things that are making me question this OSAS belief. I’m not trying to find a loop hole to sin! I’m trying to live a sanctified, holy life, producing fruit. I’m just confused because it seems there are scriptures to prove both sides.
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Absolutely! Another evidence from Scripture of the eternal security of a believer is found in John 5:24, where Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” Notice that eternal life is not something we get in the future but is something that we have once we believe. By its very nature, eternal life must last forever, or it could not be eternal. This passage says that, if we believe the gospel, we have eternal life and will not come into judgment; therefore, it can be said we are eternally secure.
There is really very little scriptural basis that can be used to argue against the eternal security of the believer. While there are a few verses that, if not considered in their context, might give the impression that one could “fall from grace” or lose his salvation, when these verses are carefully considered in context it is clear that is not the case. Many people know someone who at one time expressed faith in Christ and who might have appeared to be a genuine Christian who later departed from the faith and now wants to have nothing to do with Christ or His church. These people might even deny the very existence of God. For those who do not want to accept what the Bible says about the security of the believer, these types of people are proof that the doctrine of eternal security cannot be right. However, the Bible indicates otherwise, and it teaches that people such as those who profess Christ as Savior at one time only to later walk away and deny Christ were never truly saved in the first place. For example, 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out from us, in order that it might be made manifest that they all are not truly of us.” The Bible is also clear that not everyone who professes to be a Christian truly is. Jesus Himself says that not everyone who says, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21-22). Rather than proving we can lose our salvation, those people who profess Christ and fall away simply reinforces the importance of testing our salvation to make sure we are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5) and making our calling and election sure by continually examining our lives to make sure we are growing in godliness (2 Peter 1:10).
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Indeed before the day was, I am He; And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand; I work, and who will reverse it?”
Isaiah 43:13 NKJV -
Everlasting life is everlasting. If you could lose it, it wouldn’t be everlasting.
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I consider myself reformed but I always jokingly say I’m a few petals shy of Calvins tulip. Lol. The idea that once a person is saved that they are always saved cannot be the case. Pauls own words reveal this in books like Timothy Titus and even Philemon. In those letters Paul is grieving to his young understudy Timothy about former brothers and sisters in Christ who fell away. We can also look at the parable of the seeds scattered on the different types of ground, Rock sand soil. Sometimes the seeds took root for a time in some of those locations but we’re eventually destroyed.
The logical argument against the view I just presented would be to say “ well that person must not have been saved to begin with.” If we say that, it has to mean that counterfeit salvation exists. It would also make God imperfect.
This specific question falls in the trap of what is called a circular argument no matter what way one approaches it.
I believe it’s most important to remember that a Christian life is based on objective facts and the subjective reality of the individual. Sometimes our subjective experiences compel us one way or another, but it does not change the objective facts of the situation.
In my opinion this debate is one of the cons of the protestant reformation (there were many pros and it needed to happen) yet the reformers in interpreting correctly what had been misinterpreted for so long begin a chain reaction of theology that went to the opposite extreme from what it was before. Before only institutionalized academics interpreted the Bible and they made a lot of mistakes – because of the reformation the individual gained a relationship with scripture. Overall that was good. But I wonder how often we except the reality that some of the reformers had to be wrong and make mistakes too. Some had evolving doctrinal views that change when you read their early work and then their later work, some died partway through their journey and the views that they had while they were alive is what we read eternally.
Prior to the reformation the Catholic Church said “ The magisterium is objective reality.” The reformers came along and said “no scripture and tradition that comprise the magisterium are not objective reality. Only the Bible is objective reality.” That statement is true but as we all know ten people can read a passage of scripture and depending on where they are in their journey of milk or meat interpret that passage differently. The only solution to this in the writings of the reformers is prayer and of course prayer is always the right answer, but we don’t find any writings on how to balance the subjective interpretation of prayer that an individual hears with The objective truth of Scripture and the full extent of inspiration.
This is one of those questions where both sides of the argument can pull out some scriptures and support what they are saying. In those cases only the full counsel of God works – what is the full overall breath of the message on the subject of salvation? Clearly some fall away from the faith. Sometimes great contributors. Wow I apologize I just saw how long this post was – it’s just such an exciting topic. I suppose the beauty of apologetics is that there can be different arguments and in the end we are all edified.
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One saved always saved is an overly simplistic explanation. People who do not believe in once saved always saved seem to think that it gives us carte blanche to sin as we pleased.
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Depends on if you look at this from the constructs of time…
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Looking for loop holes?
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When you say (saved),what do you really mean 1 get water baptism ..2 going to church every Sunday as a routine 3 belonhing yo a Christian group, denomination or 4 total commitment to know Christ in a personal way
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Thank you so much everyone for your opinions and scriptures! I appreciate it so much. I can’t wait to dive into the word and study these scriptures. ♥
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You would do well to read the explanations here. It’s kinda funny that R.C. Sproul changes every acronym because he doesn’t like the way the first is perceived.
https://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-introduction/
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Once saved always persevering.
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Sometimes we go astray… and we are no longer walking with God. Yet, He never leaves our side. He patiently waits for us to come back to Him. Once saved, always saved is incorrect. We are meant to live everyday in His image, showing His love and mercy towards others. I spent my whole life in church. I have gone astray many times. Too many to count.
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One of my favorites ♥️
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Judas did
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Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, (Heb. 3:12-14)
The exhortation is to brethren – Christians.
A Christian can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from God.
This happens when one becomes hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Our security in Christ depends upon staying in Him steadfast until the end (He comes, or we pass from this life.)We don’t “lose” our salvation like we lose our car keys. We choose to walk away from it. Salvation is by faith, and faith is not a one time thing. It is an ongoing relationship with the Father.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, (1 Tim. 4:1)
Some will depart from the faith. You can’t depart from something you weren’t in. Once again, becoming hardened and deceived by doctrines of demons.
I believe in the “security of the believer.” The key word is “believer.” A believer cannot “lose” salvation. But, a believer can become an unbeliever. We don’t lose our freewill once we get saved.
Backsliders are real.
Blessings!
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There are 2 elements of salvation: Grace and Faith (Ephesians).
Grace you cannot lose, it is of God.
Faith on the other hand, can slip away, because of the hardening of man’s heart. -
If you could lose your salvation. You would. God saves you and keeps you.
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God gave Man the gift if salvation, it is given by grace because God can not be in the presence of sin. Yet atonement for sin starts with acknowledgment then baptism to recieve the Holy spirit which allows us to be in his presence. When we willingly disobey him we quench the spirit and it leaves us, because the Holy spirit is God as well and can’t be in the presence of sin. If we have had the Spirit and we leave this world still not having the spirit we have nothing to intercede for us at judgement… it is all a personal choice but leaving this world without the spirit is how you abandon your salvation.
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Perseverance of the saints is a much better way to describe the condition where the believer is secure in the saviors arms.
OSAS has connotations for many that lead to antinomianism and I believe that is where many take issue.
Being secure doesn’t give you license to just live however you want and go on sinning. That is actually evidence that you probably aren’t saved in the 1st place.
For the rest who take issue they are usually just being consistent in their beliefs that their free will got them to the cross and their free will can take them away from the cross.
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You are sealed until the day of redemption. You can not lose your salvation as some think. We may backslide at times..Two steps forward and one step back but that is our sinful nature. The old nature keeps us from perfection but once you are saved…accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour you are saved , my friend , once and for all.
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Yes. Jesus said that no one will snatch His people out of His hands (John 10), and that He will raise His people up on the last day (John 6). Paul says (Romans 8 ) that no created thing can separate you from the love of God if you are in Christ (by faith). Are you a created thing? Yes. Therefore, not even you can separate you from the love of God if you’re in Christ. God saves us freely by His will, He will change us by His will and He will keep us by His will.
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Theres a lot of comments about this so mine will get lost in the mix but I wanted to put a thought out there.
I was first saved at 7. Staying with it into my late teen years. Drifted away for a few years. At fifty five I’m back. So you could say I was saved and stayed saved. But during the the time I was away, I drank hard, stole cars, did drugs and hung out in strip clubs selling coke. Trust me I shortened the list. Had Christ returned at that time, while I was living the life I lead, was I truly a believer? and would he have taken an unrepentant me to heaven?
I believe that I have free will to except Christ, but freedom of will goes both ways. I can opt out just as easily as I opted it. You can’t have free will and no choice. When you choose to love God, he welcomes you in. But he can’t force you in. So dying while living in sin, choosing not to be with him, why would he then remove my freedom and force me to be with him at my death? -
I have read every comment and looked up every scripture that has been shared here. I have also done some other studying on my own. I think the most compelling thing I have read this far are the letters to the churches in Revelation. What an eye opener. Here are the scriptures I hold as true on this subject. Thank you to every one that has responded. I appreciate your time. ♥
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Salvation is a gift and the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable
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The bible shouldn’t be taken more seriously than poetic literature. Your problem is solved.
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1 Cor. 15.1 I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Cor. 9. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
John 15. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Heb. 3. 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, … 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. 4. 1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. … Heb. 4. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Ezek. 33. 12 ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to [he shall not] live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’
Rom. 11. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Matthew 5:13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
Matthew 18. 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Luke 8. 13 [parable of sower] Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Heb. 2 . 1 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, 3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation?
Heb. 6. 11 We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. 12 We do not want you to become sluggish, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. [if fall away – impossible to renew (6.6) The hope is entering His presence (6.19)]
Hebrews 10. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” [v.39 – “draws back to perdition” (utter destruction)]
1 Tim. 3. 6 [A bishop] must not be a novice (recent convert), lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
2 Tim. 2. 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
2 Peter 1. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
James 5.19-20 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
1 John 2. 24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. … just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Revelation 16.15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
Rev. 22.19 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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No. many will quote “neither height nor depth…..”, but that list does NOT include what the believer themselves can do by free will to walk away from God. Yes, believers do walk away from God and even pastors do it. There’s a former pastor who became an atheist after trying an experiment and living withOUT God for 1 year. Dan Barker used to be a pastor and married an atheist (after ministry) and is now a devout member of the FFRF in America (freedom from religion foundation). So, yes, I believe you can lose your salvation.
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You cannot lose your salvation once you have it
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If you could lose your salvation, then Christ died for nothing….
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Amen I was literally just meditating on that there’s no reason for Christ to come if you can lose your salvation then it’s a work trip, we are not saved by works we are saved by grace and we are sealed by the Holy Spirit
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No. Faith without works is dead. Your righteous works have to be consistent and lined up to what the word says day by day. We sin more than once, we need to correct ourselves each time. The BIBLE talks about BACKSLIDERS. Jesus died for those who will dedicate their everyday lives to him. Not to just claim it once and continue in sin.
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Jesus Christ is married to the backslider
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A lot of people think that getting saved means getting baptized. Then they think they can go back to their sinful ways and make it into heaven.
Sadly, that’s not the case.
Read John 15 and focus on verses 2, 5, 6 , and 7, then tell me if you think they’re still saved.
The Vine and the Branches
15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
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I have a question in response to your question: If a person believes because they prayed a prayer they didn’t mean, or were baptized, this means they can participate in their sinful desires all they want and they have a secure place in heaven, does this mean they are saved at all? I would argue from scripture that those men and women who say things such as, “If I believed in once saved always saved, then I would get saved and go sin all I want to,” are in fact displaying that they love and desire sin, not Christ. Therefore, they are not saved at all. “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrist; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” 1 John 2:18-19 Any person who comes into a real relationship with the Lord Jesus doesn’t walk away.
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