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Which quadrant do you find yourself?
1- Gnostic Theist
2- Agnostic Theist
3- Gnostic Atheist
4- Agnostic Atheist
Discussion
45 comments
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1 I am 100% certain God exists I just don’t know everything about him or know everything about the Bible. We can be 100% certain about something but we might not understand it in its entirety. Eg gravity, the ocean or the mind but we know that they all exists.
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The only rational quadrant. Agnostic. Atheist.
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The corner that I believe there is ample evidence not in just the trustworthiness of a higher power but that that higher power is the God of the the Bible.
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This is not a good model
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Mixing epistemology with belief propositions is always a bad idea.
Beliefs, normatively in philosophy are doxastic attitudes towards a proposition.
Also, normativly atheism is held to be the belief that there are no gods/god. In philosophy. You’d be hard press to find any published academic papers using this monstrosity of a graph.
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2 – I believe in God and have aligned myself with the Judeo Christain faith and aim live my life accordingly.
However if I am honest I constantly find myself wrestling between the tension of we can know God vs God is unknowble.
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I know God exists. I know this is in a different context but I prefer not to associate myself with the word “gnostic”.
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I’m not sure if I belong in any of these. Gnostic means knowledge. In Genesis it was the Tree of Knowledge Adam and Eve were not to eat from. God wants us to gain knowledge from His Word only, not from worldly or demonic sources. This I think is why the gnostic gospels are not in the Bible.
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1 i will gladly lay down my life for God
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So yeah im a thiest,strongly believe that the experiences ,testimonies I have had was not an illusion,deluded or mistaken identity but that the Word is true and both the Father and Som are very real and alive .
God reigns -
And to clarify i was against God ,
A proud rebel,openly making a mockery of Him and christians,reviling,asaulting and hating them and God…broke all the Laws and comands ,got into witchcraft and acult…self distructed,tried killing myself 5 times all because i was abused and hurt by people and their examples as christians(false christians) until 7 years ago when God literally called me…for 2 weeks long,i didnt know it was him so i beat up anyone id see in the street(thinking it was them harrasing me),peered over fences,looked for who it was calling me,until the 14th day i gave in and surrendered,never felt love so great and joy so deep as thhe day i met Him,Jesus saved me…the most unworthy least deseving person ever.I have many testimonies and physicsl witnesses of my walk with God (YWHW)and His Son Jesus Christ.
He is more then we think He is
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I know 100% that God is real. I’ve seen miracles
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I’d guess “agnostic theist.”
I think it’s far more likely than not that the Christian God exists, but it’s not like I don’t have the occasional doubt!
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I’ll be the oddball…..agnostic atheist
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Look around. Creation needs a creator. It’s not rocket science. Look at the house across the street! It’s not hard to tell it was built by a builder. 1 million times more complex is the world. use your eyes to see and ears to hear. It really is beyond obvious.
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The two on the bottom are both the same thing.
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in a post modern world; anyone can redefine the word ‘God’ to mean anything they want
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none; I don’t accept the graph & I’m not a gnostic of any kind.
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Due to the terms on the chart being associated with specific belief systems, most Christians don’t have an answer that fits.
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Does anyone here know the definition of Gnosticism?
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This model is not good, because knowledge requires justification but doesn’t require 100% of certainty. So it’s not accurate to say that someone who doesn’t have certainty about a belief is “agnostic”.
This model also doesn’t distinguish two kinds of people:
1- Someone who has the view that God does not exist (but who is not 100% certain)
2- Someone who doesn’t have any position about the existence of God.This distinction is important because (1) is a position that requires some justification, while (2) is not.
This model also implies some counter-intuitive things, like: “babies are atheist”, “worms are atheist”, etc. It reduces atheism to a mere psychological state instead of a real view like theism.
Because of that, I prefer the classic definition:
Atheist – Has the view that there is no God
Theist – Has the view that there is some God
Weak Agnostic – Say they don’t know whether God exists or not, but maybe one day they can know.
Strong Agnostic – Claims that nobody knows whether God exists or not. -
It’s impossible to be a gnostic theist. That’s why it’s called faith.
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I am a monotheist. I am 300% certain there is ONLY One Holy Almighty God.
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I am a Gnostic theist. I believe and convince 100% that there is a living God.
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None. I believe the Holy Bible, KJV, is my source of Wisdom, Knowledge and Salvation. The Bible is meat on the plate, not Pie in the Sky. ‘Gnostic – relating to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge.’
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The definition of atheism is not a lack of belief in the existence of gods, but those who believe that no gods exist.
Otherwise babies would count as atheist. -
How about Theist Theist? Paul wrote about gnosticism in Colossians. Do not be deceived by fine sounding arguments.
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May I say:
that the great Theolog Karl Barth with his view on God, “The Wholly Other” as agnostic theis?..
when yes,
then I voluntarily do so…?? -
“The fool says in his heart there is no God”—— that’s because natural and special revelation makes it crystal clear to us that there is a God and even within our own hearts we know!
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Gnostic Theist, I’m not there yet, but possible.
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Agnostic theist
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Gnostic theist
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Everybody on earth is agnostic by the standards of this chart, because no one is 100% sure of anything. Even the greatest Christians occasionally have doubts – this is the normal Christian life, which is why we are told to take up the shield of faith (Eph. 6).
The ‘agnostic/gnostic’ column is just an atheist debating word-trick. The normal sense of the word ‘agnostic’ is not an epistemological claim about things in general (unicorns, fairies, etc.) – the word was invented by Huxley to describe someone not quite atheist (because it was too embarrassing to be an atheist in Victorian society – highly toxic and taboo).
The only people pushing this sort of graph today are atheists (like Cosmic Skeptic) who pretend to be agnostic, but actually they are so consumed by their hatred of God that there is virtually nothing that would ever convince them to believe. Dawkins proved this by saying (at one point) he was a 6 out of 7 atheist, but then he later admitted that there was nothing at all that could ever convince him of God’s existence.
A better question to ask people who claim to be agnostics is whether they are closed minded agnostics or open minded agnostics, and go from there.
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I’m not any of these. I’m 100% theist and am completely convinced the God of the Christian bible exists.
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I thought gnostics are something else altogether.
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Gnostic simply means to know. He’s using a different meaning of the word gnostic here. You’re thinking of the noun gnostic, the heretic cult. This is the adjective opposite of agnostic.
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Isaiah 43:10, “ Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me”.
Isaiah 44:6, “Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God”.
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Gnostic theist.
1) Monistic monotheist: The Universe has a singular infinite origin, and He brought forth all things out of Himself, of His own substance and power.
2) Idealistic panentheist: The character of God is fully found within Christ, the archetype of all life, and Christ is in us, whereby heaven is is us. if we seek after His fellowship, and invite Him into our souls through keeping His command of love.
3) Non-trinitarian Miaphysite: God has and is One Nature, which may be described as Spirit, and all that He is, becomes, will be or chooses to be is, or is within, that nature. All of God is God, and He is in perfect harmony with Himself, the Spirit of Christ.It therefore follows that God is Light, Love, Power, Glory, Fire, Heaven, Spirit, Peace, Truth, Life, King, Husband, Father, Son and more, whereby His identity, His Name, His person is One.
The existence of any of the infinite (or idealistic, or perfect, or eternal) attributes of God is evidence of all others, as perfect love begets peace, just as perfect power begets Truth, and so on. God reveals Himself both through His creation, and through revelation, and all knowledge of God is found in His Son.
However, the graph is misleading.
1) It conflates atheism with anti-theism
2) It only considers two factors, theism and knowledge, whereas reality has more than two dimensions. There are many kinds of theism, and several kinds of atheism, beyond the mere category of knowledge. -
Jesus is the word, as it says in John 1. Therefore, when we are supernaturally changed as the power of the preaching the Word accomplishes, we received THE Word into our hearts, which is Jesus. Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, supernaturally changes our desires and accomplishes the promises of salvation found within his Word.
The book, the preaching of the Word causes us to see, upon hearing personal expert witness testimony, that others lives have been supernaturally changed by the book, that we can see this in our own lives as well, exactly as promised in God’s Word. When you trust in God’s Word, aka the promise of salvation found in surrender to Jesus Christ, you’re born again and receive THE Word, also known as Jesus, in a direct supernatural connection, and not only are supernaturally changed to desire new things, and overcome temptations, and be prompted into ministry, but this reveals the truth that the spiritual force behind the Bible and the spiritual Force changing us are one.
If God’s word was not trustworthy, we would not receive his promises, so we would not see the proof of God intervening in our lives as well as the supernatural change he places in us. We then gain the same expert witness testimony, that we put our faith in, because just like Truman in the Truman show, we have seen the world outside the world, we have left the building. Plenty of people are trying explain to Truman, that there was much more than the world he was believing in, the world he was seeing. He started to believe, and then took a leap of faith across the threshold to experience the true path that faith reveals. We feel God pull us super naturally to Faith, when people give witness testimony God has supernaturally changed them, and we hear the preaching of the word, and then we experience exactly what they experience, and proof is born of faith. Exactly as scripture says, taste and see that the Lord is good. Test God and see if these things don’t come to pass.
God’s Word, gives us THE Word, Jesus Christ, and that proves God’s Word to be true, and exactly what it said about THE Word, Jesus. It proves that Christ is real, which in turn proves that scripture is trustworthy. You’re going to literally walk out on your old life, you receive salvation, supernaturally we become a new creature. The old has gone and passed away, the new is here to stay. We are the proof, the only proof you’re ever going to get, and a relationship with Jesus Christ is like no other religion, not even Christianity. Christianity IS our religion, but it does not and cannot work as just a religion, as so many people in Christianity don’t know and don’t have Christ. They just have the head belief. They just have religion. That’s meaningless. You have to have Jesus. You must be born again. Then you will see the proof.
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1
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Is there an agnostic atheist? That’s a false dilemma.
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Monotheist
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Is there another chart I could choose from?
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