Who here believes you’re saved when you believe or you’re saved at baptism? Let’s have a good discussion.  I personally believe baptism is the point that God saves you. Let’s study it out??
Discussion
37 comments
-
Thank you Christian apologetics??
-
You are saved by faith. Baptism is an outward confession of faith that is an ordinance.
-
Regeneration precedes faith
-
Both
-
Baptism is obedience. It does not save anyone. I’ve known folks who were baptized a few times, and that always puzzled me. Even the Catholic practice of baptizing babies, does absolutely nothing.
-
Saved when we believe. 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10 (NKJV)
-
You are saved through baptism
-
You are saved when you believe. There is no discussion. Baptism is a public declaration of your faith and a symbolic representation of your old life gone and the new life in Christ. Dipping in water without believing is called “cooling off”
-
You’re saved when you believe. Baptism is like telling everyone that you are saved..
-
“I aknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins”
The Nicene Creed -
Salvation is 3 things in 1.
Sanctification, purification and Justification. -
All of us Christians believe in baptism. Some of us have just figured out that WATER is not required.
“For by one Spirit are we all ?baptized into one body, ?whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 12:13 -
In the catholic church, infants are baptized to free them from the original sin that they were born with. The sin of Adam and Eve .I don’t know of bible verses about infants being saved thru baptism.
To qoute
To the Catholic Church, original sin isn’t a personal sin of the unborn, but a sin transmitted from generation to generation by birth. All men and women are born with original sin, and only Baptism can wash it away. Baptism can be regarded as a vaccine against sin. -
Guess the thief on the cross went to hell?♂️
If you think water saves you, you have a big problem
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 KJV -
Gabe Cannon you claim in some of your comments that the church has been wrong about baptism for the last 400 years. Let’s go back further. Here is what Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate had to say. He asserts salvation/faith must precede baptism. “The Great Commission. Jerome: “Jesus approached them and said, ‘All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.’ ” This authority was given to one who had just been crucified, buried in a tomb, laid dead and afterwards had arisen. Authority was given to him in both heaven and earth so that he who once reigned in heaven might also reign on earth through the faith of his believers.
“ ‘Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.’ ” First they teach all nations; then they baptize those they have taught with water, for the body is not able to receive the sacrament of baptism before the soul has received the truth of the faith. They were baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit so that the three who are one in divinity might also be one in giving themselves. The name of the Trinity is the name of the one God.”
Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture – New Testament Ib: Matthew 14-28. -
I like that you say, “let’s study it”; just a reminder to you all, that means that we need to park our own ideas (ego/self glorifying) and search out the scriptures to see what God has to say!
-
Also here are direct quotations from the early Christian writers on Baptism: The quotations are from the Ante-Nicene Fathers… The first 3 centuries during and after the apostles:
1. Barnabus writing around 70 A.D. No later than 120 A.D.
” Blessed are they, who placing their trust in the cross have going down into the water. We indeed descend into the water, full of sins and defilement. However we come up bearing fruit in our heart having the fear of God and the trust in Jesus in our Spirit.” Volume 1 page 144
2. Ignatius of Antioch- personal disciple of John
“He was born and baptized so that by his passion (Jesus) He could purify the water- talking about water baptism.”
3. Hermas writing about 150 A.D.
“I heard some teachers maintain that there is no other repentance then that which takes place, when we descended into the water and received remission of our former sins. Volume 2 page 22
4. 2nd Hermas writing
“Before a man bears the name of the son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the Seal, he lays aside his deadness and obtains life. The Seal then is the water, they descend into the water dead and they arise alive. Volume 2 page 49
You see the pattern of what they are saying… We receive the new bird in the water of baptism. They often refer baptism as the “seal” showing that we belong to Jesus Christ.
5. Justin Martyr writing about 160 volume 1 page 183
“This is from his apology where he is explaining to the Roman Emperor: This is what all Christians believe. This is what all Christians hold to:
“At our birth, talking about our natural birth, we were born without our own knowledge or choice, but by our parents coming together. But in order that we may not remain the children necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge and may obtain in the water, the remission of sins formally committe, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father, and the Lord of the Universe and in the name of Jesus Christ and in the name of the Holy Spirit.”
Justin Martyr
“But there is no other way than this… To become aquatinted with this Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins and for the rest to live sinless lives.”
2nd century writings
Theophilus- Writing about the year 180 A.D.
“The things proceeding from the water were blessed by God, that this could also be a sign of men be destine to receive repentance and remission of sins through the water and both of regeneration. As many have come to the truth and are born again. Volume 2. Page 101
Clement of Alexandria- writing about the year 195 (volume 2. Page 215)
“Being baptized we are illuminated . Illuminated we become sons. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection and washing. Washing by which we cleanse away our sins. Grace by which The penalties accuring to transgressions are remitted. Illumination by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is by which we see God clearly.”
Clement of Alexandria
“Our transgressions were taken away by one medicine- the baptism of the word. We are wash from all our sins, and are no longer entangled in evil. This is the one grace of illumination, that are characters are not the same.” Volume 2. Page 216-217
Clement of Alexandria
“In the sure way therefore we repent of our sins, remove our iniquities and our purified by baptism.”
Tertullian writing about the year 198 A.D.
“Happy is our sacrament of water, washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and omitted into eternal life. Read like little fishing after the example of our (ICHTUS) eases Christ are born in water.”
Tertullian page 676
“Unless a man has been born again of water and of Spirit, he will not enter into the kingdom of the heavens. Their words have tried faith, to the necessity of baptism. Accordingly all there after who became believers were baptized. So was it to that Paul when he believed was baptized.”
-
We’re saved when we are born of the Holy Spirit and become a new creature in Christ.
-
Which baptism?
-
Baptism does not save.
-
Dang that guy on the cross next to Jesus didn’t get baptized…I guess he didn’t get in after all…sad
-
The man on the cross next to Jesus didn’t get baptized did he??
-
True!??
-
Alot of people got Baptized and left the faith and turned their backs on God and Jesus.
-
Both are possible. The hopeful route if someone is born to Christian parents is they are baptized as an infant per the Trinitarian formula. If the abide in Christ in the hour of their death then their life in Christ starts when they are babies. Receive, believe, obey, remain. But if they are older and choose to be baptized then it is believe, receive, obey and remain. But as a parent I have wanted our four kids to be baptized before what many would call “the age of reason”.
-
Baptism has nothing to do with Salvation. “By Grace we are saved, through Faith”. We are baptized to follow in Christ’s example. It is not what saves us. That is not in the Bible. The thief on the cross was saved by his faith. He wasn’t baptized.
-
All were saved by the finished work on the cross, this is guaranteed by the resurrection and indwelling of the Spirit, and lived out in a life of continual sanctification and repentance. We are saved continually in this life by how presence, set apart for an ultimate salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
-
Water Baptism doesn’t save anyone. We saved by the grace of God alone, through faith in Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:22, Romans 10:9-10,) among many other verses that support this.
Ephesians 1:13-14
“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” -
Look at what a brother named Steve Taylor posted on another thread- in regards to baptism and salvation:
“As an evangelical Baptist who trained at a mainstream evangelical Bible college, I was quite surprised when I encountered the CoC denomination for the first time. I instinctively disagreed with the whole “Baptism is what saves you” line of thought.
However, I also happen to be a specialist in early church history, and much to my surprise their approach to Baptism turned out to be not only consistent with the NT but also with all of church history until the 16th Century, at least. The simple fact of it is that the Bible teaches and the whole early church believed that Baptism was the point of salvation for all Christians.
This ended up getting tangled during the Reformation because A) people misunderstood Luther’s ‘sola fide’ and insist baptism is a “work”
? it’s hard proclaiming that Baptism is the first step to following Jesus when your audience were all baptised as infants!Over time we as the evangelical Church gradually divorced Baptism from salvation altogether, to the point where we tend to ignore most verses about it.
For me the hinge is 1 Peter 3:21 – Peter teaches that Baptism saves people, but crucially because it serves as “a response to God from a clear conscience”. Today, we seek that same saving response, but aim to do it long before baptism. Not exactly biblical, but it works!
Otherwise I still have lots of reservations with the more extreme CoC churches – but since I married, my father in law is a CoC elder, and is a great example of faith in action. And he surprised me very much by changing his mind after studying the scriptures on things – you can say whatever you like, but at least the CoC teaches people to study the scriptures well and doesn’t tend to muddle it up too tightly with other man-made doctrines. If he’d been a Calvinist I daresay things wouldn’t have gone so well.”
-
The Bible says 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel which saves us.
…That if you believe Christ died for your sins, was buried, rose again fulfilling the scriptures, you will be saved…
-
Baptism is always post-faith.
Baptism is a symbol. -
You believe and be Born again first is when e undergo baptism
-
Gabe Cannon, No one is saved at water baptism. It’s the Holy Spirit baptising us into Christ, [The rebirth] that saves. Forget what men have said, We Have to go by what the Bible says. I know that the translators have misled Biblically ignorant people about water baptism, But the Bible and the Biblical Greek proves that water baptism doesn’t save.
-
Clearly at belief (Greek translation for trust in, rely on, adhere to….. E.g. The thief was not baptized, on the cross believed in Jesus and was with Jesus in heaven.
-
Gabe Cannon I watched part of the video then decided to do my own research. I purchased the complete works of the Early CHurch Fathers on Kindle (50,000 pages). We began this debate with you saying for the last 400 years the church has held wrong beliefs about baptism and that it is a necessary part of salvation. When I pointed out that Jerome in the early centuries of the church did not believe that you moved the goal posts from your ‘last 400 years’ assertion and said it was the early church fathers. When I pointed out that Paul in Romans did not see baptism as part of salvation you claimed that was written to the Jews (Rom. 10). When I asked if you believed there was a different salvation for the Jews (which is nonsensical) no response. You then asserted that just because salvation isn’t mentioned in conversion experiences in the NT it is implied. I previously pointed out that Cornelius and those in his house were saved and filled with the spirit prior to baptism. No reply. Ignatius and Polycarp are considered disciples of the Apostle John. I read through all of the letters of Ignatius. There is not one mention of baptism having any connection to salvation. The same with Polycarp. This quote by Ignatius was there but you are reading into the text to support your position. “He was born and baptized so that by his passion (Jesus) He could purify the water.” In the NT Romans is Paul’s theological pinnacle. He makes no connection between Baptism and Salvation. He uses the word Baptism 3 times in his epistles. Rom. 6:4, Eph. 4:5, Col. 2:12. None of which support your position. Paul’s only other comment on the subject – 1 Corinthians 1:17 (NKJV)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. – A very strange comment to make is baptism were an essential component of salvation. In conclusion, you are free to maintain your belief but it is not supported by scripture. -
[…] Who here believes you’re saved when you believe or you’re… […]
Comments