From my understanding of Romans 7:15 which states that “for that which i do i allow not: for what i would, that do i not; but what i hate i do. Was this life before his conversion or after his conversion? If it was after his conversion, has he been living a sinful life, a life not pleasing to God? If yes do we consider him a born again? And IF he had been living a sinful life, how did he come out of it, what did he discover or do?
Discussion
15 comments
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Romans was written around the winter of AD56/57. Paul became a follower of Jesus shortly after the crucification and resurrection. We know that after seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus between AD30-33 (dates of the crucification very in this time frame), Paul trained with some of the apostles and spent 3 years in the desert learning about (some say from) Jesus.
So yes by the time of AD 56 Paul was a well established follower of Christ. Saved and marked with the Holy Spirit (we know this from various gifts Paul has used from the Holy Spirit).
Remember Paul was a Jewish Pharisees before following Jesus. Many of the books of the prophets and psalms and even books like Job are written in a poetic style. Paul is very familiar with this. He is being poetic in 7:15 but making a theological point.
In Romans 7:15 Paul is being poetic but giving hope to all. We are fallen by nature into sin. Being saved by Jesus we are not bound by the law as the Israelites were, but we are still subject to the law. We know the right answer that would please God. But our sinful nature we sometimes rebel and make mistakes. Every human experiences this. Paul is letting us Christians know that he also experienced this, also. And this is Paul we are talking about! This verse gives us hope when we are saved and sin.
I don’t think Paul led a sinful life, but I am sure even he sinned and had to ask for forgiveness after he was saved. Yes we would consider Paul born again from after his time on the road to Damascus.
He came out of his sinful life the same way you or I do. Read the Bible. Draw closer to God. And when we do slip up and sin we ask forgiveness and repent. Keep Jesus as Lord.
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After the conversion of Paul he still sinned. And from 1John 3:6 it says whosoever abideth in him sinner not. So was he not abiding in Him. And vs 8 says he that committeth sin is of the devil. Is he of the devil? Lastly vs 9 says whosoever is born of God does not commit sin. Is he not born of God?
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After we are saved we do not become perfect. Only Jesus Himself was perfect. We humans are still fallen. Paul being a former Pharisee and follower of the law wrote “:and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,:” Philippians 3:9
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Perhaps, Paul does not say. Regardless, being a follower of Christ doesn’t mean that you will go on and live a sin free life, nor does it mean that once you are saved you have a free license to sin. Paul addressees that concern in Romans Chapter 6.
To answer your question honestly, we must read the verse in its proper context. In Chapter 7 beginning verse 14, Paul is describing a conflict between two natures, our old nature in the flesh and our new nature in Christ. I believe the last two verses make the perfect bride to Chapter 8. Paul writes, “Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin” (Romans 7:24-25).
In Chapter 8, Paul tells us great news. We have been delivered from the bondage of sin in Christ Jesus! Paul says, “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, ‘Abba! Father!’” (Romans 8:1-15).
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The whole thing is in the lresent tense, continuing action and he is talking to christians no about conversion but living as Christians. The argument about this is because some branch’s of the church teach that Christians never sin. That is the real aruement. Paul is saying yes we do the difference is faith in what Jesus has done, we don’t glory our wallow in the sin but find our victory in Christ an not ourselves. As Christians we remain beggers in our need and not suffient in ourselves.
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(Rom. 7:14–25) Paul here is speaking about a believer. This person desires to obey God’s law and hates his sin (7:15; 19; 21); he is humble, recognizing that nothing good dwells in his humanness (v. 18); he sees sin in himself, but not as all that is there (vv. 17; 20–22); and he serves Jesus Christ with his mind (v. 25). Paul has already established that none of those attitudes ever describe the unsaved (cf. 1:18–21; 32; 3:10–20). Paul’s use of present tense verbs in 7:14–25 strongly supports the idea that he is describing his life currently as a Christian. For those reasons, it seems certain that ch. 7 describes a believer. However, of those who agree that this is a believer, there is still disagreement. Some see a carnal, fleshly Christian; others a legalistic Christian, frustrated by his feeble attempts in his own power to please God by keeping the Mosaic law. But the personal pronoun “I” refers to the apostle Paul, a standard of spiritual health and maturity. So, in v v. 14–25 Paul must be describing all Christians—even the most spiritual and mature—who, when they honestly evaluate themselves against the righteous standard of God’s law, realize how far short they fall. He does so in a series of four laments (v v. 14–17; 18–20; 21–23; 24; 25).
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Worth a listen
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Paul is describing the honest struggle that every believer has with sin on a daily basis. The struggle will be there until we die.
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After, but he still wrestles with his sinful nature
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We won’t be like Christ until we see him face to face (1 Jn 3:2; Phil 3:21). Until then we muddle along, only seeing as through a glass darkly (1 Cor 13:12).
It’s clear from Paul’s writings that earthly sanctification is not possible, and that we are works in progress.
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Paul is speaking of life subsequent to redemption by grace through faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Paul explains that when we are born again by the Spirit of God and the Spirit takes-up residence within us, there is a struggle initiated between two-opposing natures i.e. our sin-nature in the flesh v. the new nature in the Spirit. Paul is telling you that this struggle will continue until this body of flesh dies away but we are told that He, the Holy Spirit, Who is in us is greater than the one who is in the World, that is, Satan, the father of death and sin (1 John 4:4). Paul teaches that if we deny the lust of the flesh and pursue the righteousness of the Spirit, there is life and peace (Romans 8:6-10).
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I am glad he shared that he struggled. We can identify with that.
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It’s here: (Romans 7:24) “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
He didn’t say that I WAS, but that I AM; present tense. -
We are all embroiled in this struggle. Continue believing that God’s Grace has you. Do not focus on your sin. Even if you are thinking about how to STOP doing it, you are still thinking about your sin. Focus rather on the love and grace that has lifted you up. Spend time with Jesus. The more you do, the more holiness will grow and sin will fade. He has promised to transform us into the image and likeness of Christ. Believe Him.
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