I’ve been debating a guy on Facebook who dogmatically asserts that Jesus Christ never existed. That those who wrote the Bible never met Him, and that scholars prove it. No effect on me but I offered evidence and asked questions, very important by the way, but to no avail. Ok my friends, what would you say?
Discussion
51 comments
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There’s really no point in debating someone who holds a verifiably false belief as dogma.
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I assume you’re not talking about me? Ive never claimed jesus never existed.
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What’s the alternative? Far too few ever think this line of thought all the way through. I’ve pushed very hard on this particular door, and am yet to find a viable alternative. People begin with ridiculous conspiracy theories in the 300s, until they read documents from the 200s… Then the 100s… Finally they decide the Disciples made it up… But why? They all died brutal deaths as poor men, and gained no money or power along the way. Why?
Put him on his own terms. What exactly is his conspiracy theory, and how well does it stack up against the evidence available? Who, where, when, why?
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Sounds like the dude has been reading too much Richard carrier, ask him to provide evidence for his claims.
Richard carrier or other mythecists are not taken seriously by any new testament scholarship. -
Even arch-atheist Richard Dawkins has said that Jesus existed.
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If they didn’t want to listen to Jesus, they’re not going to listen to you either. Is the slave greater than his master?
Just stay faithful to proclaim the truth of Jesus…you did good.?
Grace and peace.
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First of all understand that evidence is not what makes a man a Christian.
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Insult his ego, then give him quotes from scholars which confirm your point. Try to add a little humor, make him think you aren’t taking him that seriously, then offend his ego again.
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Historicity of the new testament has been proven beyond doubt.
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Jesus is more revelatory than a bible story. As a Son in the kingdom, this revelation can be transmitted to him practically. Secondly, you must understand that the encounter he or she will get will be a useful tool in the kingdom. Always remember Jesus shows up for those who seek the truth.
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For me you have to reads lots of books aand anticipate questions.
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You already said enough, you can’t change him only God can.
In situation like this is easy to lose you peace.
My advice is: don’t throw you pearls to the pigs
Just pray for that fellow, bless him and ask to Jesus to saved at any cost necessary.
God bless you brother -
Usually when I’m dealing with a hard skeptic that doesn’t believe Jesus existed… I share verifiable historical facts:
Do you believe in the first 5 Emperors of Rome?
1. Cesar Augustus 31 bce–14 ce)
2. Tiberius (14–37 ce )
3. Caligula (37–41 ce)
4. Claudius (41–54 ce)
5. Nero (54–68 ce)
?
Did these five Emperor’s exist? How do we know this?
Did Alexander the great win an extraordinary victory at the Battle of Gaugamela against Darius III’s of the mighty Persian Empire in 331 bc? ?
Did king Leonidas of Sparta take 300 of his bravest warriors and brought the fight against Xerxes and the Persian empire at the Battle of Thermopylae against the Persian army in 480 B.C. ??
Did George Washington encamp with his ContinentalArms at Valley Forge for 6 months in the winter of 1777-1778? ?
The evidence that we have the Jesus existed is the four gospels
Also there are over 42 sources within 150 years after Jesus’ death which mention his existence and record many events of his life. Let me know if you want me to share those evidences?
I have never once encountered an atheist who argues that Alexander the Great, Plato, and Socrates never existed.
Facts always lead to the truth… Also I would share this video: https://youtu.be/qIdCRanZZyw
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First off no serious historian denies that Jesus did indeed exist. There are many extra biblical accounts of him.
I never debate folks who are that adamant about rejecting. Dust your feet off and move on.
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Whenever someone makes that assertion, ask two questions: “Where is your evidence for your view?” Its up to them to prove their case before you launch into any discussion about evidence. Also ask: “What kind of evidence would you accept from me and are you willing to subject your assertions to the same level of investigation? Usually, you’ll just get verbal invectives thrown at you, so wear your armor!?
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Even Richard Dawkins (the arch atheist) conceded that Jesus lived. Non-Christian bible scholars do not dispute the fact of Jesus. Prof Bart Ehrman is one, and his objective evidence as a non-believer is overwhelming. If someone chooses not to believe in the evidence but does not want to even explore the evidence, then do not waste your time. It is just attention seeking behaviour. Ironically, many such people will believe in other life in the Universe (for which there is no empirical evidence) but not in the historical fact of Jesus.
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Unfortunately, severe ignorance has no cure. Even atheistic scholars concede Christ existed. But just like the Holocaust deniers, they are blind and foolish with little to no cure. Thats a work the spirit needs to do.
For it has been said, don’t waste your pearls on swine.
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No sense in discussing the issue. All he’s doing is repeating what someone else has said without verifying the credibility of those that said it. He’s basically accusing you of what he’s doing…??
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Kick of the dust from your feet bro; the Bible says not to cast your pearls before swine. Pray for him and ask the Lord to break up the hardness of his heart.
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The burden of proof is on the claimant here. I would ask him what his evidence is for such a claim, in particular the primary sources.
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Are we to rewrite history and discard all that was written about George Washington and not believe that he was our first president?
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If never met Alexander The Great. So …I guess he didnt exist either.
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All scholars, even secular ones, agree that Jesus existed. So scholars don’t “prove” that Jesus never existed; the exact opposite is the case.
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How does he know George Washington existed or Julius Cesar?
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Hyperskeptics can be difficult to deal with…
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It’s time to walk away my brother, however I would leave your mythicist friend with this quote from skeptic and New Testament Scholar Bart Ehrman:
“..as is clear from the avalanche of sometimes outraged postings on all the relevant Internet sites, there is simply no way to convince conspiracy theorists that the evidence for their position is too thin to be convincing and that the evidence for a traditional view is thoroughly persuasive. Anyone who chooses to believe something contrary to evidence that an overwhelming majority of people find overwhelmingly convincing—whether it involves the fact of the Holocaust, the landing on the moon, the assassination of presidents, or even a presidential place of birth—will not be convinced. Simply will not be convinced.
And so, with Did Jesus Exist?, I do not expect to convince anyone in that boat. What I do hope is to convince genuine seekers who really want to know how we know that Jesus did exist, as virtually every scholar of antiquity, of biblical studies, of classics, and of Christian origins in this country and, in fact, in the Western world agrees. Many of these scholars have no vested interest in the matter. As it turns out, I myself do not either. I am not a Christian, and I have no interest in promoting a Christian cause or a Christian agenda. I am an agnostic with atheist leanings, and my life and views of the world would be approximately the same whether or not Jesus existed. My beliefs would vary little. The answer to the question of Jesus’s historical existence will not make me more or less happy, content, hopeful, likable, rich, famous, or immortal.
But as a historian I think evidence matters. And the past matters. And for anyone to whom both evidence and the past matter, a dispassionate consideration of the case makes it quite plain: Jesus did exist.”
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“semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit”. It means: “the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.”
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I would say he is exercising his free will…he is choosing to be in denial. Remember, the path to salvation is difficult and the gate is narrow, for the FEW who find it.
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Even Jews admit Jesus existed.
Such a position is simply one of absolute unfounded denial. -
When they refuse to accept valid proof it’s over. Only God can convince them.
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The only reason we know Alexander the Great existed is because those who were closest to him wrote about him and the impact he left on history. Proof for Jesus Christ is the same way.
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Don’t cast your Pearl’s before swine.
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Our job is to share the gospel, its the Holy Spirit’s job to see it take root. If it is not, that is on the stubborn resistance of the guy, not you. besides, you never know what effect it may have 1 year, 2 years, 10 years down the road.
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Pray for him. Keep him in prayer. Only God can change a heart like his. I’ve seen arguments like his before. You can throw out all the bible verses you want, he has his own belief and it is deep rooted. Only the Holy Spirit can reach him now. You have laid the seed, if it is going to grow, God will need to water it.. Prayerfully he has not become a reprobate. ?
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Pray for him. Only God can soften a hard heart
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Ask them to provide sources and then expose the view for what it is…ridiculous. People can have any reason they want to reject Christ but Him being a real person is not one of them.
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Hi. There is a whole lot of speculation as to who founded Iceland. Ask your friend if he would be able to provide evidence of who founded Iceland.
All the methods he would use, can be applied to proving Jesus as a real historical figure, except there is so much more evidence for Jesus than for the guy who founded Iceland -
People who don’t exist don’t change the world.
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Just tell him you’ll pray for him. Since it sounds like he’s not providing anything debatable. L&P
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Let him go and turn him over to the Lord!
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How come the Jews of the time (ones that did not like Him) and Romans and some of their philosophers have books about Him?
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Titus 3:10-11
There isnt anything to say, if he cant acknolwdge facts. He has a rebellious spirit. -
Give him Bart Erhman’s book, a prominent Atheist historian, who writes in defense of the existence of Jesus, but whatever, critierion he is using to prove that Jesus didn’t exist. Use it back on him to show that people who you both know exist couldn’t be proven to exist on his basis.
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get books by people who set out to disprove god and got converted doing it,there are several. but of course he still needs faith as even if the dead were to come back and visit them they would not believe without faith.
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He is just prejudiced and doesn’t want to believe. You just need to uplift him in prayer and not force the issue.
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No serious historian has ever denied the existence of Jesus.
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I debated an atheist for 5 years who finally unfriended me when I started posting daily bible scripture. You have to pray for them that their eyes can be opened. If they refuse Him, at least you tried.
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A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
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You can’t fix stupid, even Muslims admit Jesus existed. I’m sure you have better things to do then convince someone who’s blind and deaf by choice that they can see and hear should they choose to.
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Why debate someone who absolutely denies Jesus.
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