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Was Lucifer’s heart evil before he became Satan?
No. He was a perfect and holy angel.
What happened? Where did his thought to rebel come from?
A void? A vacuum? Chance?
Discussion
32 comments
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One thing is certain. None of us made the choice to exist. Or did we? If we did then we are indeed free agents with the will to determine our existence and future. But if we didn’t then we have no claim to autonomy.
Are we simply the product of chance and randomness, or were we put into motion by a Prime Mover outside ourselves? A Prime Mover who knew the eventual outcome of our lives before we even existed, and who desired that outcome above any other foreseen possible outcome? For in bringing about our existence was also brought about the outcome of our lives. An outcome which was foreseen as one amongst many other possible outcomes. And yet that one outcome was chosen out of all the others.
If God knew what we would do before he created us, and had the option of creating someone else who would make different choices, who is ultimately responsible for our choices and actions?
If I am contemplating creating a human and I can look into the future at their every decision, I am responsible for the decisions that person makes because by bringing that person into existence I also bring that person’s choices into existence.
Example:
I can create Mike. I have looked into the future and Mike will be a good person.
Or,
I can create Jim. I have looked into the future and Jim will be a murderer.
In like manner, when God created Lucifer he knew he would become the devil, and when he created Adam he knew he would become a sinner.
Along the same lines God had the choice of creating Mike whom he foresaw making a choice to love him and as a result go to heaven.
And he had a choice to create Jim whom he foresaw not loving him and as a result go to hell.
If he creates Mike who makes the choice that he go to heaven?
And if he creates Jim who makes the choice that he go to hell?
There is immediate responsibility, and there is ultimate responsibility.
It’s up to us to make decisions, but in the ultimate scheme of things those decisions come to be because the Prime Mover brought us into existence knowing that we would make them.
If before creating man God knows that man will sin, and proceeds to create man, is His intent to create a sinner?
Does God have the ability to do something different from what He foresaw Himself doing?
Is He bound to create a sinner, or can He instead create a man that He foresees not sinning?
Pink had this to say…
“If then He foresaw that in creating a certain person that that person would despise and reject the saviour, yet knowing this beforehand He, nevertheless, brought that person into existence, then it is clear He designed and ordained that that person should be eternally lost.”
– A. W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God -
Please say which verse of the Bible
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Scripture doesn’t say just the fact that he rebelled with his followers and was cast out with them to earth and hell was made for them as consequence.
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Basically
Proof some people will never be happyThey live in heaven
Which is like being at constant orgasmYet still
Not happy -
Lucifer was created with a sin nature.
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Free will seems to spawn jealousy. That was the temptation to Eve. God is holding out from you something good that you have a right to. Grab it why don’t you.
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Pride.
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Why do people think so much into these things? Just accept what is and if you really want to know and are a believer then ask God when you die, but will you really still be that interested in such a question and if you are, why? Is the curiosity of this question going to help radically change your life for the better or the world? Will you ever know ultimately why John Wilks Booth shot Abraham Lincoln or why one person ate scrambled eggs this morning or the other had oatmeal? Maybe the answer to your question is as simple as, because He wanted to.
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Angels sin. They aren’t perfect beings in the way they’re portrayed.
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Darkness from the First Day saw the Seventh… that there was neither evening nor morning. He perceived that no more Night would be there. Self preservation kicked in and he will keep the Six Days going until the bitter end. ?
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Satan”s sin pride
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Satan in Hebrew means “adversary.” חסתן means The adversary. His name is still Lucifer. He, like any other created being, was created with free will. He chose to sin.
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He was always prideful and jealous of God and His power, after He came to power
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Where in the bible does it speak about Satan’s previous name and what happened to him?
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From His free will.
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I would say that Lucifer wasn’t a rebel, he was, and is, a usurper. But God is God so he lost.
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Having libertarian free will doesn’t mean we can “will” something without a prior cause, all of our actions have prior causes which originated from God. That doesn’t mean though that we can’t have a real choice, but of course, before we can choose, we must be presented with options. The one who gave us options is the “first cause”, while our act of choosing is the response to that first cause
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Jealous of God jealousy of mans relationship with god. Does it matter.
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People suggest Isiah and Ezekiel speak of him. Ive read a commentary that disproved Isiah but I’ll attach the Ezekiel verse because it sounds like possibly Satan and most scholars believe it to be him. He is personified, just like Isiah, as a prince. Ezekiel 28:12
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John Camara Satan was evil from the beginning. John 8:44
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RC Sproul: The Lord can never be blamed for evil, but evil does not take place apart from His decree. We cannot finally explain how this can be, but the Lord’s ability to ordain evil without being morally responsible for it shows His greatness. He can ordain evil without compromising His character; that is impossible for us to do. Surely, His ways are past finding out.
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John, can you ground your presupposition that angels are perfect beings? And in what sense are they perfect? Were they given the title as the “Holy Holy Holy” as well?
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Angels do not have moral perfection. They are but messengers, carrying out God’s instructions, and WE will judge THEM in the next life.
ha’shaitan, Lucifer (the Lucent one) was created as The Most Beautiful Angel, bearer of light; And because of his great beauty, he became vain, boastful and proud.
According to Screwtape, proud Lucifer rejected God for creating spiritual half-breeds (humans), and he became so enraged at this that he forcefully removed himself from the presence of God so rapidly, that the story evolved that he was actually kicked out of heaven.
He’s also called the father of lies… -
Didn’t pride lead to Lucifer’s downfall?
Is the inherency of pride (at least the potentiality of it) common to all men and angels? -
A Free Will.
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From him. He was created a free moral agent.
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Before Satan’s fall Lucifer was talented in all major gifts of God, like he is excellent musician, an artist and lot more. Later he wants to be equal as God, where the seed of rebellion generated in his heart. (May be because God created humans His best creation) Later after knowing his heart God throw him to earth and he took some 200 watchers with him and made a rebellions team against God who were known as fallen angels. Most of things found in Book of Enoch which was previously included in Bible but later removed (proof present in Bible itself where it written – And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:14-15 KJV)This book is still available in Euthopian Bible having complete story of fallen angels. In Genesis also it’s written –
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Genesis 6:2-6 KJV -
Pride
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Stop calling him lucifer, that’s not who the devil is and he was never perfect.
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free will but unproven character. theological answer all finite beings have free will from god and go through a period of testing like Adam and eve and the tree.consistent willing obedience produces proven character. Lucifer had to choose to glorify God for his gift of beauty or glorify himself he made the wrong choice. he tempted all the other angels then they had to make a choice to love God and serve him or follow Lucifer and serve self. This is the only answer I have found,. God is love love wants to be loved back freely. free will allows the possibility of sin but did not cause it.
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First and above all we need to have an understanding of God, a rock solid understanding of He Himself. With that all others things will come to a better understanding. God is the firmer foundation with which everything, I repeat, everything can be understood.
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