How do Christians view the Trinity in light of John 17:21-23? When I read this, it seems to indicate that Jesus is asking God to make the Apostles one with him as he is with the Father. Does that mean that the Apostles become part of the Trinity?
Discussion
23 comments
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Knowledge of the doctrine of the hypostatic union and the doctrine of the Trinity would have prevented this question.
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I know it might sound strange but I believe the Apostle in these context (Jn 17:21_26) are part of the God head, Generally, we as believer also are part of the Godhead through Christ (God the son) that’s why Jn 1;12 said; But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: we are not just Sons of God but from the same Jn 10;34_35 and Ps 82;6_7. Stating that we are God’s
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Highly impossible for any human being to be part of Godhead (Trinity).
The word itself signifies three individuals, which are one. Therefore, it has excluded the Apostles and everyone to be part of the Trinity, no matter how much you believe in God.
Furthermore, if the Apostles are part of the Trinity, then we as Christians are part of the Trinity, that’s for argument’s sake. Because Christ prayed for the Apostles and those who will believe in Him to be united, not part of the Trinity according to the Context.
Context is key brother man
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Adopted as joint-heirs. So yes. Which is incredible.
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It means oneness, it means one in purpose.
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1 Corinthians 1:10
[10]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. -
Small tiny nitpick divisions have been happening since the beginning of the church.
We must heed our Fathers word more. Many here do not heed his word truly.
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Pray to God that He give you knowledge to understand the scripture
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The central idea behind the The view of salvation within the Patristics was of theosis or deification. This is somewhat a mystery however we are made partakes in the divine nature according to scripture.
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We are hidden in Christ before the Father. We are the body of Christ, Scripture is clear. We are co-heirs to the Son’s inheritance. We will share in God’s glory! Mind blowing. How can we mere creatures share in His glory?! It’s a divine mystery to be sure.
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Think as God does. Think histhoughts after him like a child steps into his father’s footprints in deep snow. It’s part of immating Christ that is mentioned elsewhere. You need to read Scripture in view of all that Scripture says.
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Were the Apostles omnipotent, omniscient ect…? The answer to this question is the answer to your question.
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God is One What and Three Whos.
There is only One God YHWH and He has three distinct persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..the Father is Not the Son, the Son is Not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is Neither the Father Nor the Son.
According to Nabeel Qureshi in, “Seek Allah, finding Jesus” They have one essence or being and three separate different personalities that act in independent unity with each other.
If you read the entire bible either you can be left with contradictions, or rightly identify what YHWH is saying in His Word and accept it accordingly. Above all the scriptures are God breathed, infallible, and Absolute Truth (2 Tim 3:16). Therefore they have NO contradictions, so there must be another answer!
The scripture is clear of these four facts: All scriptures (KJV NO copyright)
1.) The Lord God is One (Deut 6:4)
2.) The Father is God (2 Peter 1:17) For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
3.) The Son is God (John 1:1,14a) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God .And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
4.) The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-5) Peter asked, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you should lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back some of the money you got for the land? As long as it remained unsold, wasn’t it your own? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? So how could you have thought of doing what you did? You didn’t lie only to men, but also to God!” When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized everyone who heard about it.From a clear exegeses of scripture we see that all three persons the Father, Son, and Spirit are called God. Does this somehow contradict Deut 6:4?
As we can see we have been forced into this view, by the text of scripture itself which is from YHWH Himself. He has made it this way and we are correct enough not to question our Creator when He says,” I am One What and Three Whos”. I can’t fathom what this means but it doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t believe it. I can’t fathom nuclear physics but I certainly believe it.
The Bible has proven itself True objectivity with the scores of fulfilled prophecies. It has likewise proven itself True subjectively, by the innumerable lives transformed by the Truth it gives..the Hope…and the Love it brings to this fallen world.
Why does this matter? What is love? We hear God is love, buy why?
We know the Bible is trustworthy because of the fulfilled prophecy and changed lives, so we then must reconcile the Oneness of God in scriptures with the scriptures that tell us the Son and the Spirit are also both God.
I think that like in so many cases in life the answer is found in LOVE. As explained by Abdu Murray “Trinity”, existenceofgod.org
In John 4:8b-9 we read the following, “Because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.” ( KJV NO copyright)If God truly is Love and He truly is self existent or has true aseity, He would have to by necessity have the ability to love in and of Himself. But how could the One true God of Love actually love before He first brought into existence?
Are we to understand that God was not truly complete in and of Himself, and He did not love before He created an object to love? If God must create out of necessity, the need to have an objective to love, was He complete in and of Himself before He created?
God is a God of relationships, He Loves His creation and wants to have a right relationship with it.
If God is only one in nature and one in person then He would have been lacking the ability to Love from eternity past. He would have to have first created something to love before He could Love, so He couldn’t truly be perfect even in His “aseity”. Or would He even have aseity? He would not have had the capacity to have a love relationship with anyone. Except this contradicts the definition of aseity which is existing in and of self. If God couldn’t Love prior to creation, He does not have true aseity. If God is both One in nature and, and one in person then He could not have loved prior to bringing the first creature into existence. Love could have been nothing more than a concept with no real context. The God of the Bible is described as complete not lacking anything form eternity past. A God who lacks the ability to be fully complete outside of creation is not the God which the Bible has revealed to us.
In Bible, as we have shown, God has reveled himself to be One in nature and Three in persons. We have also shown that in-order to be a God of Love, God must have loved before bringing His first creation into existence. God is necessarily a triune God. Meaning it is necessary for Him to be a triune being in-order to be perfect.
The law of parsimony says that the hypotheses with the least amount of assumptions must be true. The least amount of persons you would need in-order to enjoy all three types of relationships which are self-directed, others-directed, and community-directed would be a minimum of three persons. This would mean three is the necessary number to fulfill the three types of relationships.
This is answered in the Triune nature of God as reveled in His Word.
The Father loved the Son, the Son loved the Father , the Spirit loved both who also loved each other. Living in perfect triune relational love without the need to create. This is true aseity.
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have you really thought about apotheosis?
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I love it when people prove they never bothered to learn even the basics but attempt to act intelligent by asking questions that prove they haven’t learned the basics.
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What people are struggling with is the nature of an infinite being. They look at things at face value and fail to see his manifestation in 3 persons. Why should it be an odd thing thst this infinite being is of this nature he’s god. Don’t we have a body and a spirit and s soul are we 3 persons? These arguments are just that because someone wants to win them and what is the reward? 0
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He’s praying for the oneness of the elect.. Christian unity.. just as the Trinity is One
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“In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.”
John 14:20 ESV https://www.bible.com/bible/59/jhn.14.20.esv -
We are hidden in Christ. We are the body He is the head, we are United to Him through the spirit. Pray that the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the truth in His word…..
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We do need Christian unity.The interpretation of the Word of God is so important if we r to be one in Christ Jesus.I this this platform could be very beneficial if we take the opportunity to study the Scriptures and not debate.By this shall all men know that you r my disciple if we have love one for the other.
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No. The apostles did not become part of the trinity. Unity of mind and spirit and will. Just as we are to be one body in Christ
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??♂️ it’s one in agreement man!
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“that they may be one, just as We are one;”
Let’s analyze what you are proposing. If believers are in Us – v. 21, (notice the plural) and thus are one in Them, and that makes them part of the Trinity, then all believers become each other, there being no distinctions. I become my pastor, and he becomes me. That, would be ridiculous because we will always keep our distinct individualities. I don’t become another person.
So why then would the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit being One, prove they are not distinct Persons?
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