Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, or Post-Tribulation rapture?
What is your biblical argument supporting either?
— I personally used to be pre-trib, but after life experiences overseas on deployment, I’d say now i adhere to the post-trib eschatology.
What are your reasons for your eschatological beliefs? And can u support it? Thank you!
Is no rapture an option? I personally subscribe to amilenialism
Reasons why i don’t believe in Pre, is largely due to the fact that pretrib rapture doctine wasn’t fully honed or polished to the extent it is now, which is largely attributed to James Nelson Darby, a relatively new teaching.
I think no one knows and maybe we are not suppose to know because then we would do like many have done in history sit down and wait instead of doing what we are commanded to do keep preaching the Word Sharing the gospel
Here is my understanding
There will be a pre wrath of God rapture and here is my thinking
Revelation 5
The saints are in heaven
“The redeemed of the earth from every tribe language people and nation “
The wrath of God
Begins in revelation chapter 6
With the opening of the seals
Revelation 6:17
“ the day of the wrath of God has come…who is able to stand “
I’ve been thinking about this lately, and I was reading in revelation the other day. When Jesus is speaking to the 7 churches, only 2 of the 7 aren’t rebuked. And only 1 is told that they will kept from the hour of trial. The “faithful church”.
Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Is it crazy to think maybe.. both? Will only a fraction of the church be taken before? The rest still saved, but left behind to 1) be witnessed during the tribulation, or 2) be refined during the tribulation, or both? I don’t know, I just read revelation 3:10 and it threw me for a loop. Bc idk about the rapture nor have a pre or post view about it, because there are verses to support both ideas. What are some thoughts?
I would like it to be pre-trib so we don’t have to suffer tribulation. On that note, what a horrible feeling if rapture happened and you wernt taken…scary.
I think more likely is mid-trib (although again perhaps wishful as we would avoid worst tribulation) or post trib but pre-wrath is probably most likely.
Noah and his family were protected as God removed the wicked.
The meek shall inherit the earth.
This is more of a eschatology question
As amilenialist I don’t believe in a rapture.
Post tribulation by almost 2000 years. The tribulation that Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 24 happened in 70 A.D.
I believe He comes back after tribulation, before Gods wrath
I don’t believe in the rapture.
Revelations 21:1-2 We will not see the end until we see a glorious Church on earth that will prepare us for heaven
Here’s proof that the rapture exists and that it is not post tribulation, the saints descending with Jesus at His Second Coming:
Revelation 19:7-8
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his WIFE hath made herself ready.
(This is before the Second Coming)
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in FINE LINEN, CLEAN AND WHITE: for the fine linen is the righteousness of SAINTS.
(This garment is exclusively for the saints, it is our righteousness, no one else in heaven is described as wearing this garment)
REVELATION 19:11-14
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN!
The saints, no longer the bride waiting for our Bridegroom to come for us but now His wife because the marriage has been consummated, are ready to accompany our Husband back to the earth. We are clothed in our fine linen robes, our righteousness. We come out of heaven on white horses. We had to be in heaven first and long enough to celebrate the marriage supper of the Lamb and the bridal week.
This leaves only the pre or mid trib options open.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
We already know we descend out of heaven with Jesus, our husband. At some point in time won’t be dwelling on the earth anymore. The Bible specifically says the tribulation is for the children of disobedience, those who trouble us and those who dwell on the earth. It’s seven years long. The church is not the children of disobedience, we’re the children of God by adoption. We cannot be on the earth at all during the tribulation. We already know we’ll be in heaven clothed in our righteousness, does it make sense that we could still be on the earth after Jesus promised to keep the faithful OUT (ek) of the hour of testing. I can’t see it any other way but that we will be in heaven for the entire tribulation.
I’m Pan-tribulation. Just be ready! It’ll all pan out ?
Pre wrath?
I believe there are 2 raptures of the church. The church raptured after the sixth seal (Matthew 24:29-31 compare to Revelation 6:12-7:17) then those that are saved during the tribulation will be raptured which would fall under the pre-wrath rapture. (Rev 11:15-19 & rev 14:14-16) there are plenty of other reference but mostly for the pre-wrath position to compare if anyone is interested.
The Rapture is not Scriptural. It is barely found in one verse (1 Thess. 4:17) and not at all, if you know Greek, and read the passage in Greek. It is about the Second Coming of Jesus to rule and reign. There is no secret second coming, making Jesus return the Third Coming. If people could only count to 3, and read Greek! Sigh!
I’m going with pan-trib. It’s all going to pan out in the end.
This is kind of an Eschatology question, not an apologetics Question. I don’t know of any apologist out there who has ever spent even one minute on this issue.
And mostly, I really don’t care. Whatever happens, happens. I’m just living my life for Jesus right now.
I’m pan tribulation. Whether I have to go through any part of the tribulation, or if Jesus mercifully saves me before it happens, as long as I keep my focus on Jesus and fulfilling my role in His great commission, it will all pan out in the end.
I’m Soooo pre Trib., I don’t even eat Post Toasties
Pre trib when the Holy Spirit is removed and no longer holding back evil the antichrist will be revealed as world leader and the 7 years of tribulations will begin. At the end we will return with Christ to rule and reign for 1 thousand years. Then the devil will be released from the pit and he will turn people and nations against Christ. Then the world will be burnt by fire and a new heaven and new earth with the heavenly city will be where we will enjoy eternity
How could life experience overseas change your mind, I am 70:years old, and I have look at all the issues of this and there is only one biblical and logical conclusion and that is that it is Pre-trib is the only answer
I’m a Preterist and do not believe there are any biblical prophecies relative to anytime after 70AD. I was a dispensationalist/futurists for the 1st 28 of the 38 years I have been a believer in Jesus Christ. The nature and understanding of the “last days” has been taken out of context to what scripture actually says. Every time statement in the New testament, especially Revelation states it was soon, near, at hand, the last hour etc. “TO THEM” 2000 years ago. No scripture was written “TO US” 2000 years later. It was written for us, but not to us. The last days that scripture is referring to is not the end of the physical earth and heavens, it was the end of the old covenant, and the beginning of the new covenant which was consummated in 70AD with the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. Matt. 16:28 and 26:64 states that Jesus told His disciples that some of them would not taste death until they saw Him coming in His kingdom, He told Caiaphas the high priest the same thing. He told His disciples in Matt. 24:14 that the gospel would be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations and then the end would come. Both Romans 1:5, 8; 10:18 and Colossians 1:6 and 23 state this occured in the 1st century. Matt. 24:34 states “this” generation (the generation to whom he was speaking) will not pass away until all these things take place. Notice is doesn’t say the generation that sees these things (although they are are the generation that did see those things). Acts 2:17 and Heb. 1:1 states it was the last days “then”, in their 1st century time period. Again, it was the last days of the old covenant, that is whole entire premise of the subject and context of last day eschatology.
no rapture view
Ruben I have a question. How can personal experience replace the Word of God? You changed your stand on doctrine because of an experience. Gods Word does not change. I am pre trib.
I have read through all the question and replies and there is so much twisting and bending of the Word of God. I saw complete scripture ignored, misplaced or outright changed in this. There is much that is not rightly divided.
I highly recommend Chuck misslers series on the book of Revelation. He leans towards pre trib but he presents all views well, and goes very deep into Bible teaching. If you’re serious about this issue, I can’t recommend Chuck Missler enough….
For many years I held the eminent/pre-trib view of the rapture but after years and years of study and research I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only is this view completely unScriptural, it actually sets “believers” up to accept the Antichrist when he shows up.
The rapture of the Church is PRE-WRATH and AFTER THE TRIBULATION. We are not appointed unto wrath but in the world we WILL have tribulation. Making a distinction between “wrath” and “tribulation” is key to understanding the rapture of the Church.
John Nelson Darby’s “dispensationalism” and “pre-trib rapture theology” are both utter nonsense and have deceived the majority of the modern day Church. C.I. Scofield and other Bible commentators endorsed this nonsense and the modern Church ate it up. Before Darby, the church was always “pre-wrath/post- trib”, with the exception of two early church fathers who were not even necessarily “pre-trib”, however, some of there writings do support the pre-trib position.
The Scriptures make it vary clear that the rapture happens AFTER the tribulation and that before the rapture can happen, there must first be a great falling away and the Antichrist must be revealed.
Chuck Missler teaches eminence which is completely untrue and a misinterpretation of Scriptures. The Scriptures actually teach the opposite. The rapture CANNOT HAPPEN until there is first a great falling away and the man of sin is revealed which is most likely at the abomination of desolation.
Let me star by quoting King Solomon:
Proverbs 18:13 KJV
“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.”
Proverbs 1:5 KJV
“A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:”
Herbert Spencer once said,
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is condemnation or contempt prior to research or investigation.”
II Thessalonians 2 straight up tells us that the rapture is not eminent. Again it cannot happen until there is a great falling away and the Antichrist is revealed. The idea that the rapture must be eminent comes from people misunderstand what Jesus meant when He told the parable of the 10 virgins as well as His statement about coming as a thief in the night. Paul explained this in the passage below.
I Thessalonians 5:1-4 KJV
“1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”
What Jesus really meant by these parables is that we need to be watching and paying attention. It has nothing to do with eminence.
Here is II Thessalonians 2:1-5 KJV
“1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?”
Jesus straight up told us that the rapture is “immediately after the tribulation”, in Matthew 24 and Mark 13
Matthew 24:29-33 KJV
“29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.”
Mark 13:24-29 KJV
“24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.”
Not only did Jesus tell us that the rapture event is after the tribulation in these parallel passages; He clarified that there must be events that precede it by mentioning the parable of the fig tree which explains that we will know when it is near by the signs which precede it.
The rapture event happens after the tribulation but kicks off the wrath of God being poured out on the earth.
Wrath is God’s righteous judgment on the world.
Tribulation is the persecution of God’s people/believers or the wrath of Satan on the Church.
Revelation 12:12 KJV
“Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 & John’s Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapters 7-8 are all parallel passages. If you have never seen this correlation before, I encourage you to check it out.
I highly encourage you to check out this video by Chris White.
One final note: The restrainer mentioned in II Thessalonians 2 is not the Holy Spirit but is actually Michael the Ark Angel. There is much more to this, it’s explained in the video presentation in the link but if you have any questions feel free to ask and I’d be more than happy to answer them.
What about PAN-Tribulation. However things pan out they will pan out, just always be ready for the return of Jesus regardless of which view may be right, because Jesus is coming back regardless of what our view is on this matter.
Pretrib Rapture and Premillennial because Jesus said it. The Bible supports it. And if you’re not down with that, we got two words for you, see ya! ?
It is not our business, the important is you must believe in premillenialism and dispensationalism.
Bible references: whole chapters of the book of Revelation in the Bible.
Post tribulation rapture,
It is clear that immediately after the tribulation,Lord will appearing in heaven with his holy angels with a trumpet to gather His believer from the four corners of the earth dead or alive and be caught up to meet Jesus in the air.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
We will suffer tribulation not because if wrath of God but because the wrath of the beast who will persicute the church during his reign of a term 3.5 years or 42months, but the consequences of his wrath we suffer just like the downfall of economy just like now we suffer consiquences of corona virus wich i believed that it is an anger of the Lord to all wicked in the earth, and to call thier attention, many people now suffer starvation due to lockdown
I believe Jesus will return for his body prior to the wrath of God being poured out because of the following:
1 Thessalonians 3:13
[13]To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Jude 1:14
[14]And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
How can he come with his Saints if his coming is only the second coming
The rapture will happen after the tribulation (Matthew 24.29-30).
I’m in the pre-trib camp for the following reasons. God used Noah’s flood, in type, as a future salvation plan roadmap.
1. Flood = Tribulation/wrath
2. Enoch = Church/Body of Christ
3. Noah = Jews
4. Ark = Jesus
5. Ark Door = Holy Spirit
6. Methuselah = God’s long suffering and patience.
So, Methuselah represents God’s patience and long suffering. His name means “his death shall bring” and he was the oldest person to ever live. Enoch is raptured out before the flood, just as the Church will be. Noah represents the Jews going through the great tribulation. The Ark represent Jesus, as the Ark is the only way to be saved. The Ark door represents the Holy Spirit, when door was closed shut, they were sealed/salvation secured.
As a side note, Methuselah was the oldest person to ever live, but died before his father ?. Only God ?
The church will be caught up. It will not be here for the tribulation.
The tribulation cannot start until the rebellion happens and the man of lawlessness is revealed.
The man of lawlessness can’t be revealed until the restrainer is removed.
MidTrib can’t be so, cause otherwise we’d know the day, be we can’t know the day.
Pre-wrath can’t be, because why would it be so long after the man of lawlessness and the tribulation started.
PostTrib, the yo-yo effect. Get caught up and then come back down.
The only part of Revelation that’s happened in the first 3 chapters. The book was written 95-96 AD. You’d really have to do some stretching to allow for the book to written prior to 70 AD.
If Revelation already happened, why are we still here. And what does it say about God keeping covenants? Many more hurdles with this view.
Pretribulation and Premil. But I’m not going to war with my fellow brothers and sisters over this. I need to go about my Father’s business. There are many lost and they need the truth.
Partial Preterist
I think Romans 11 and the Book of Revelation, pose problems for Preterists
You mentioned that your experiences during deployment caused you to change your mind. I’m guessing this was due to suffering experienced in other parts of the world?
None of the above …all are part of the Jesuit inspired false system of interpretation plaguing the church today … Known as dispensationalism
I was raised in a pre trib home and of course,as I aged, wondered if that could truly be the case or was wishful thinking. After having recently gone through the book of Revelation at our church, I’m still in the pre trib camp. Coupled with the book of 1 Thessalonians—especially in light of chapters 4 and 5.
Also, a thorough study of Romans.
Covenantal Postmillenial Partial Preterist
Myself I am settled on the Historicist position .. But I stray back and forth from Postmillenial and Amillenial .. Hmm optimistic Amil if there is such an animal lol
Rapture will happen after the tribulation (Matthew 24.29-30).
Post trib because of the last trumpet and the second coming is the rapture in Thessalonians.
Neither one.
I’m open to all because they’re all speculation and while I believe in them there isn’t really any evidence scripturally that they are going to happen. The second coming has boatloads of scriptural evidence so, even if I have to suffer tribulation from the antichrist until Christ comes back, eternity with christ is worth it.
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