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How do I explain so people that the devil is…

6 years ago • August 28, 2020 • by ourCOG

How do I explain so people that the devil is not behind all viruses, sickness and natural disasters?
And that although hard to understand at times God uses these things for good?

Whenever I try to defend Gods sovereignty related to this I get people saying “How could you! God is good and loving! He saves us! This is all the devils work! Stop spreading lies!”

Am I wrong to say God allows directly and indirectly all these things to occur and does so for direct or indirect purpose? And especially when it comes to natural phenomenon where an angle (like the devil) has little to no authority? And if we take Job into account only authority given to him by God?

Just want to know you’re opinions and advice on this.. thank you and Godbless.

Categories: #ourCOG

Discussion

45 comments

  1. Oscar Mendez says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:19 am

    This may not answer your question directly, but I’d shared my thoughts on natural disasters.

    1- When we talk about something like the coronavirus, the philosophy would be referred to as natural evil.
    And that in itself is an interesting term. If it’s genuinely natural, if it’s supposed to be this way, if it’s dictated by the laws of physics, and laws of nature, is it actually evil? Could you get a moral category like evil, out of something that is just physical and natural?

    Inversely, if it IS evil, genuinely evil, wouldn’t that make it unnatural?

    I find it interesting to see how this virus is he used to point to God, or away from it. It cannot be both.

    2—If something is natural, then it shouldn’t be intrinsically evil in itself. If you have a tornado and you are watching it from a safe distance, it could be majestic to behold. It can be beautiful to behold. If you put a virus under a microscope, it could be beautiful to behold. There are even categories of viruses—strains that we NEED in the human body. The vast majority of viruses are not harmful. If we didn’t have viruses, bacteria would replicate so quickly and cover the entire earth and nothing could inhabit the Earth, including us.

    It raises the question, “Is the problem lies within the fundamental natural features of the universe? Or is the problem lies within the way we function, the way we behave within his environment?

    Could it be the case that we are not functioning our bodies the way we’re supposed to, in the environment that we’re in?

    Ex. When a feral child is taken out of the community, out of all relationships that the child was intended for, that child does not function properly in its environment.

    Could it be the case that humanity, as a whole, are living separated from outside the context of the relationship that we were most destined for?

    Reply
  2. Karan Singh says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:20 am

    While the Bible has prophesied that certain events must take place (famine, wars, plagues etc)

    Those “Christians” who say God all love ONLY type of a God…then they don’t know who God is…God is both the God of Wrath and Love.

    Regarding this pandemic thingy
    I think we don’t need to agrue whether this is Gods plan or Satan’s plan…The Most important is that God is Sovereign overall things that why we need to TRUST HIM through the bad and the good times.

    Reply
  3. Larry Koester says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:21 am

    Well he can use them for good to give us peopleto care for it is also disciplinero teach us widsom to.number our day considering the coming Judgement and/or death wbmhich ever comes first. and it will come, it can’t be avoided.

    Reply
  4. Pauline Sharp says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:22 am

    I agree God uses bad situations for a purpose! To grow us and rebuke us teach us whichever way you look at it evil will not over come God, we have to remember this whenever we meet head on with collisions like this, and look for God to show us the way and trust him in all things

    Reply
  5. Radz C. Brown says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:28 am

    In the book of Job, the Devil did do some of those things. The Devil is not *always* behind all viruses, sickness and natural disasters. Sometimes it is our sins or nature itself according to the New Testament.

    1 Corinthians 11:30 says that God causes sickness and death to those who ate the eucharist unworthily. It is their judgment.

    Ephesians 1:11 God works all things for good to those who love him.

    John 9:1-5 the blind man is blind from burth not because his parents sinned or that he himself sinned but that the glory of God might be revealed in him.

    Romans 8:20-21 all creation suffers and they await the resurrection of the children of God which is also the time when God will renew all things.

    Reply
  6. Christopher Brynestad says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:29 am

    No, you’re not wrong in pointing that out. Look at what God did to Job. Look at what the Father put the Son through on the cross. Consider Paul’s thorn, or the concept of God disciplining His people like a father disciplines his son. There’s a hidden side to God we can’t know or understand because we are sinful creatures and He is the righteous creator, we are humans and He is God.

    Martin Luther called this theology the Theology of the Cross. It lets God be God in spite of how it good or bad it looks to us. It calls bad things bad and good things good. The opposite to this is the Theology of Glory which lowers God to our level, as if we could fully understand Him. It makes excuses for God by calling a bad thing good and a good thing bad. It doesn’t allow God to do things that are contrary to how we think He should be acting. The problem with a Theology of Glory is that through it we are assuming we know the big picture, the whole story, or how all good and bad things are working toward salvation and the return of Jesus. And this just isn’t true. We don’t truly know what’s in store for tomorrow.

    Reply
  7. Steve Bagnall says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:32 am

    God certainly uses challenges & obstacles to draw people closer to him. In some cases he clearly creates those challenges & obstacles. In other cases, he merely allows them to happen. I believe there’s a distinct difference

    Reply
  8. MiahLanae Moxie says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:41 am

    The problem of evil. : we live in a fallen world so bad things will happen because of it. But this is not how God wants it. He wanted the entire world to be like Eden and for humans to be his partners in taking care of it.
    When we speak about Gods sovereignty we must understand the levels of His knowledge. Just because we cant possibly see a reason for certain things happening doesn’t mean God doesn’t.
    I think about the times you have seen time travel in a Sci Fi movie. They tell you that the smallest thing you do differently can severely change the future. God knows all the ways this can happen. He can see our entire timeline.

    Reply
  9. Michael Connolly says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:44 am

    Give grace to the babies in the faith among us. Trust that the Holy Spirit will do His work in the Lord’s bride.

    Reply
  10. Damien Lacks says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:48 am

    Show them what He says about Himself. He testifies to the sovereignty and righteousness of Himself through and by His word.

    “I am the Lord, and there is no other;
    Besides Me there is no God.
    I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
    That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
    That there is no one besides Me.
    I am the Lord, and there is no other,
    The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the Lord who does all these.
    — Isaiah 45:5-7

    Reply
  11. Damien Lacks says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:49 am

    Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help
    And rely on horses,
    And trust in chariots because they are many
    And in horsemen because they are very strong,
    But they do not look to the Holy One of Israel, nor seek the Lord!
    Yet He also is wise and will bring disaster
    And does not retract His words,
    But will arise against the house of evildoers
    And against the help of the workers of iniquity.
    — Isaiah 31:1-2

    Reply
  12. Damien Lacks says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:49 am

    If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
    If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?
    — Amos 3:6

    Reply
  13. Anthony Delmedico says:
    May 29, 2020 at 10:53 am

    Of course God allows for evil that good may prosper. God created humans knowing the reality for the potential for evil so that He’s not responsible for creating evil itself. This is evident in the fall of man which brought about death through sin. The devil does, and can cause evil, of course. But not every instance of evil is due to the devil. Some evils, like the Coronavirus, are the mere product of a fallen world. Which again, is the result of sin, human evil.
    Those who say God can’t use this for good is condescending. Throughout scripture God uses evil things for judgment. Again not evil He created, but that which was produced by other means. God IS sovereign. Those who impose their superficial understand of God’s sovereignty need to learn how to read scripture, and remember they’re evil too if it were not for the grace of God

    Reply
  14. Christi Fay Shiflett Williams says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:00 am

    We are in a fallen world. It’s been that way since The beginning. We are governed by the laws of this universe. When it rains it rains in the just and unjust. Through pain and disaster God can use those things to the good and for His glory. He knew before He began our laws of physics in this universe what each of us would choose and what would happen if we chose different scenarios. He’s that mighty. You can have good without evil but you can’t have evil without good. The evil of man happens because at some point that evil thing they choose is somehow good for them though it may not be good for others. Natural disasters are awful but scientifically we know that through fires, tornadoes, floods, Tsunami’s, etc, that things happen for the good that keep this world renewed. Seed distribution and so forth. Lots of info on that topic. We are not in heaven and this world will eventually pass. There’s been people convert through sickness and then there’s been people, like myself, who went through a horrific experience while being a Christian and walked with God to minister with others. I went through cancer a few years ago and chemo. Lost all of my hair. I’m not old. It was unexpected. My husband and I are heavily into ministry. We had a campus ministry and a large state college, teach apologetical courses at our church, run feeding ministries, I am a public school teacher, we are also biblical counselors. I did not stop. When I was weak we still kept going. We had people ask if our faith was shaken because God allowed me to suffer like that. Our answer was NO WAY! He is the reason I could go on and not because he supernaturally did something for me. It was because I stayed positive and focused on good and not negative things. He knew I’d use it before He created me so He allowed it to happen. Because I was already in the public eye, it gained attention that I was still miraculously working and ministering. It places me in a position to minister in public settings to talk about Jesus and. It in a way that said “Hey look, He is healing me because I’m a Christian!” it was the opposite. I lost my identity physically. It was hard. I suffered but I kept going and gave Him the glory for it. I was not thankful for the storm but I was thankful in it.

    In conclusion, we are not in heaven. We have choices. Things happen. People and children will die but it’s what we do during life’s storms that make a difference to ourself and others.

    Reply
  15. Christine Farrar says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:01 am

    The devil is not behind all sickness, virus or natural disaster those a result of a fallen world. They happen because man chose his way over Gods way.

    Reply
  16. William Mc Sr. says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:05 am

    when I first came to the lord , I wanted to know all about this new found faith; I went to the library and studied hard. I took to fasting and prayer some times five times a day. one day day after fasting nine days without eating; I was taking away in the spirit to a place of complete peace. it was so peaceful that I did not want to leave; the peacefulness was interrupted with screaming and crying. a voice spoke to me and said those are the soul that are being tor tured day and night and I said god is a god of love and the voice said warn them and say blessed is he that is watching and waiting upon his return. therefore god allows saton limit power to prove mankind unworthiness.

    Reply
  17. Jack Johnston says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:10 am

    When Christians describe and defend a heavenly father who feels the need to abuse his dysfunctional family, I detect an unhealthy co-dependence that is so typical of how believers view themselves and their relationship with other believers which is neurosis masquerading as some kind of noble trial and refiner’s fire with the victims saying, “Please, Father, can I have some more because I know I deserve it and you are fully justified in your wrathful and just punishment.”

    Reply
  18. Doreen Heintschel says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:17 am

    You are correct. Just keep taking them back to scripture. I think many of the people that reject what you’re saying dont read their Bibles very often or they would know the truth.

    Reply
  19. Sonya Blade says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Matthew 5:45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

    Reply
  20. Glenn Smith says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:48 am

    Exodus 4:11

    Reply
  21. Noah Mukwato says:
    May 29, 2020 at 11:52 am

    How did Moses and Hannah understand God?1Sammuel 2:6-8, Exodus 4:10-11

    Reply
  22. Nikki Sheppick says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    Look …. see what God “allowed” to happen to Jesus …. to the believer who realizes what Jesus/God did out of love for them …. therein in found joy …. even though it was also tragic and awful …. at the same time. But, to an unbeliever, they just see it as awful, or as some did …. applauded that this terrible thing happened to Him. And, to those who were “allowed” to be born with a defect of some kind, or fell ill, or had a long-term disease, or even possessed with a legion of devils …. awful, terrible, even something – in the flesh – to be afraid of, BUT …. when they are healed, as many were during the ministry of Jesus when He walked the earth before His crucifixion …. what joy then at being healed, but how many thanked Him or even obeyed Him thereafter? God knows. And, what then, of Paul, with His “thorn” …. of which he prayed thrice for it to be removed …. but God basically said no …. to keep him humble …. …. God is God …. He sees all, hears all, knows all …. past, today, future …. as Jesus Said: “Not my will, but God’s will …. be done.”

    Reply
  23. Lorna Isaacs says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:05 pm

    Cody I like your presentation God is Supreme and He is in control.He is all wise and His permissive will we should not question?But God is all loving and He does understand why we question.But let us trust God He knows what is best.

    Reply
  24. John M Soulliere says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    John 10:10 is straight forward. God using is not the same as God causing. There is sin and death in this existence.

    Reply
  25. Karl Ernst Von Buddenbrock says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    It’s the difference between primary and secondary causes. “Let there be light” is the primary cause. “The earth produced…” is a secondary cause. God allows it. In a fallen world, God allows the effects of the fallen world, and the actions of the Satan (in Job’s case) to happen. But, remember, for the people of God, it always is for their good in the long term As Joseph told his brothers, when it was found out that they had betrayed him at Dotham, but God had looked after him – “You intended it for evil, but God intended it for good”

    Reply
  26. Brenton Goin says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    Does God himself not use the devil?

    There is no power but of God.

    Reply
  27. Sara Broyhill Anderson says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    https://www.amazon.com/20-Vision-Exodus-Brings-Purpose/dp/0578641054/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=20%2F20+exodus&dchild=1&keywords=20%2F20+exodus&pd_rd_i=0578641054&pd_rd_r=0ca3c4d8-9a6e-4b76-aad3-44ceb25aa284&pd_rd_w=JkT8C&pd_rd_wg=s0orX&pf_rd_p=39765fd1-ffee-45e9-8f18-3372ad113070&pf_rd_r=N3B0YMAP95R455PWBNYW&psc=1&qid=1590769975&sr=1-1-191b1ae3-0539-4250-ad39-b698e0b800f6

    If this isn’t allowed feel free to remove. But I wrote a short study/book on this subject.

    Reply
  28. Zoey Granitz says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    For real!!!! I’ve heard so many Christians say that God created this virus and I’ve been clueless what to say back!!

    Reply
  29. Steve Rubes says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    God is mysterious that’s why. The Devil is earthbound and real but he will alway lie and deceive you.

    Reply
  30. Sarah Pollard says:
    May 29, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    The book of Job is helpful here – even just the first couple chapters. God allows Satan to attack Job, God allows Satan to kill his stock and family, to harm Job, etc. God is always in control, and always in command of Satan

    Reply
  31. Jeffrey Sanate Hmar says:
    May 29, 2020 at 1:15 pm

    Dont blame all to satan. Its because of man’s disobedience to God that changed everything from garden of eden.

    Reply
  32. Jeffrey Sanate Hmar says:
    May 29, 2020 at 1:17 pm

    Yes, i meant that we are the originator of calamities, read all chapters of genesis. Besides, satan also acted against God’s purposes and try to hinder us to hear God’s voice in everything.

    Reply
  33. Manfred Boensch says:
    May 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    God is not culpable.
    If not the adversary who then.
    The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
    John 10:10 ESV
    https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.10.10.ESV

    Reply
  34. Michael Wesolek Sr. says:
    May 29, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    All virus, bacteria, cell, atom or any other unseen thing has been created by God already . Such as gravity or fire are good things God has created. If man abuses or misuses the good thing without knowledge it will kill him.

    Reply
  35. Emmanuel Joseph says:
    May 29, 2020 at 3:51 pm

    Yes, all the disaster are not the hand work of the devil
    Sometimes. (1) God uses it to bring our knowledge back to him, example ( when the people of Israel were in Egypt and forget that God is still in existence, he used a wicked king Pharaoh to remind them. And that was why they cried to God.),. (2) God uses it to warn us for our mistakes example ( when the people of Israel was in the wilderness, a time came that they rebelled against Moses, God sent serpents to bite them),
    (3). God uses it to test our faith example, ( when the devil was about to tempt Job, God allow him to do what he wants to do on Job but not to touch his soul, and God at the same time tested Job’s faith)
    (4). God uses it to show his power example ( when Pharaoh king of Egypt refuse the people of Israel to go, God use the seven plagues to answer the question him the question he ask Moses (WHO IS YOUR GOD THAT I SHOULD OBEY HIM ?)
    So, I suggest that not all the disaster are from the devil.

    Reply
  36. Ben Horgan says:
    May 29, 2020 at 4:05 pm

    Death entered the world through Adam’s sin. Pain and suffering entered the world at that time. So you know who is responsible for pain, suffering and death? We are. Adam sinned one time and all of creation was put under a curse. Just one sin and pain, death and suffering was the result. So how many sins have you committed today? Do you think those sins have no effect?

    Reply
  37. Andrew John Laatz says:
    May 29, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    God has given Lucifer a set time and certain boundaries held by the Mighty Angels.
    What you see is Lucifer’s work, allowed, but not instigated by God.
    When the cup of God’s wrath is full, THEN God will step into action and cast the 7 Vials of Destruction on all who have hurt God’s people. That (neat future) will be God’s doing before He fetches His Saints and Destroys all that remain! The Saints will Dwell with God for a 1000 years before returning to earth in the New Jerusalem, to wake the sleeping wicked and execute final judgement on All the wicked humans, angels and Lucifer himself.
    Joel is a very interesting read especially Joel chapter 3.

    Reply
  38. Patrick Boren says:
    May 29, 2020 at 7:30 pm

    No. Not “at times”, but He works all things together for our good. I consider Psalm 66:10-12 and 1 Peter 1:6-7.

    Reply
  39. Katie Clark says:
    May 29, 2020 at 9:38 pm

    You are not wrong. Look at Paul’s thorn in the flesh. All of the disciples suffered. Paul suffered sickness, imprisonment, etc. I think it’s in 2 Corinthians 1 that talks about us going through things so we can help other with similar struggles. ALL things work for our good for those who love God and are called according to his purposes. Also, there are verses in the old testament that talk about the Lord’s sovereignty over storms and calamity. Doesn’t mean Satan isn’t involved either.

    Reply
  40. Bill Brannon says:
    May 30, 2020 at 2:11 am

    is Cocoa powder.or baking soda good by themselves? No but when you mix them with flour sugar eggs butter Nd a little chocolate milk well you get a pretty awesome chocolate cake. You have to take the qhole not the pieces

    Reply
  41. Marilyn Hogue says:
    May 30, 2020 at 2:31 am

    sin causes it all not God’s idea how things should be. He allows it because you need to learn something. He will not let the devil kill you. Read Job. Learn fast so you don’t have to learn it again! You’ll come out better prepared for heaven.so He says you’ll be glad you did and you will. But He’ll never leave nor forsake you. It won’t last long That’s how you grow in Christ. He did not say it will be easy!

    Reply
  42. Verlin Jessica Govender says:
    May 30, 2020 at 3:02 am

    Please read my book, it will help!

    https://www.amazon.com/DELUDED-GODS-JOURNEY-THROUGH-SCIENCE-ebook/dp/B087PH8HCD/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Deluded+gods&qid=1589112311&sr=8-1

    Reply
  43. Dianne Witzell says:
    May 30, 2020 at 7:06 am

    Devil can’t do anything without God’s permission and God only gives permission for His own reasons. There is always a purpose.

    Reply
  44. Steve Davies says:
    May 30, 2020 at 7:09 am

    I find it amusing when people use the attribute of good and loving as a reason why tough things are not to happen.

    Reply
  45. Chad Turner says:
    May 30, 2020 at 7:21 am

    There is no helping some people. They like their vapid understanding.

    Reply

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