Hypothetical question/scenario: someone who has not been converted is murdered and by default goes to hell. The murderer is arrested, sent to prison and while awaiting execution comes to faith in Jesus and will now go to heaven when he dies. Is it fair that the person who effectively dispatched someone to eternal damnation ends up in heaven while his victim languishes in hell? Or is it that the victim was going to go to hell anyway so “to hell with him”? Was the sole purpose of the victim’s earthly existence to be a tool for the salvation of another? Discuss.
Discussion
51 comments
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It would be even fair if we all go to hell. All have sinned. We are all lawbreakers.
In your example however, they both received something from God. The murderer received grace. The one that was murdered received justice. -
Yep!
First….stop making hypothetical questions
Second….YHWH is always perfect in His righteous and holy judgment. ALWAYS.
Third…we have zero clue where anybody goes after death. So why ask?
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In a nutshell, yes.
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First you don’t know the victim ‘s ❤️ we never know what passes in their mind the last seconds of their life
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The manner of death is a moot point. Acceptance of the Saviour is not. Fair is acknowledging the Lord and the horrible death he went through just for you and kneeling in obedience to the God that created all things.
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Fair? Who said God is fair? If you know you must repent and do not, that is in that person. Remember the thief in the cross. All he had to do is have faith. He did.
The question is, do you truly believe upon the Lord Jesus?
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Fair? I wonder what your basis for comparison is?
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Have you hated someone in your heart?
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In a certain sense, it could be said that the victim goy victimized twice. None of us are innocent, but when a something on the level of having one’s life willfully and intentionally taken by another has been perpetrated and the perpetrator at the very least has an opportunity to one day repent; is there mo appeal for the victim? This is one of the sticking points that a sceptic may present to you. It is something that goes against the grain of our (imperfect) understanding of equity.
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What is fair is that all sinners be condemned. If any sinner – and the victim of your hypothetical murder would be one – accepts the grace of God then he receives mercy instead what is fair.
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GOD is sovereign. Hell is fair. Heaven is not.
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Why do you assume the guy who was murdered was a good guy anyway? Let’s assume he was a serial unrepentant child abuser. Would you feel as indignant now? You’d probably think he deserves it, deserves hell.
Now apply it on all of us, because that’s how God in His holiness sees us. We all are deserving of hell. It was out of His love and grace He chose to pay for our sins, so we can be with Him. His holiness demands punishment for sin, it is satisfied by the death of Jesus. His love is fulfilled because we did not get punished.
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We all deserve hell. Jesus is salvation to EVERYONE who believes on Him, even murderers.
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None
…. If your understand the concept that God is in control and not eve one leaf of a tree moves without his power, then you would know that God has and will deal with each person individually and independently as well. God allows good and bad things to happen for His purpose.God never let’s anyone to die and be condemned without always first giving warnings and opportunities of repentance.
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No man is promised tomorrow. No one will be able to say “If you’d let me live one more day, I would have converted’
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Lol Russ you like to ask the hard ones.
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Did the murder victim get chances to come to Christ?
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No one goes to hell for not accepting Jesus. People go to hell because they are sinners.
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Salvation is about God’s will, not fairness
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The Judgement: For the murdered, before conversion it is not at all within our right to can say anything at all about that (Matthew 7:1-2) but if we choose not to be converted we are not going to neither (John 3:3) nor (John 3:5). In this scenerio, the murdered is not converted so the innate sin (of Adam) and others before they die is in our Lord God to decide.
The Climax: The murderer failed (Matthew 22:37, 39) and (Exodus 20:13). With Cain this is what our Lord God did (Genesis 4:11-12).
The Conclusion: And again, it is not at all within our right to can say anything at all about that (Matthew 7:1-2).
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Fairness in the earthly wisdom, but to GOD thats his sovereign will and because he changeth not he can’t compromise his own word.
He does his WORD and his WILL.
Our part is to do his Word and Will wtht Compromise. -
I truly believe that even in the last few seconds of your life you can receive Jesus as your Savior
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Sire that is a nice question. Let Roman’s 2:12-16 speak. And you can DM me.
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God knows every heart and can judge him according to what that person knew, and how he lived his life. John tells us in Revelation that when Jesus returns, He will bring His reward to give to each one according to his works. If someone didn’t get a chance to learn about Jesus, or didn’t get a chance to come to Him, doesn’t necessarily mean he will end up where we think. It is given to Jesus to make that judgment. And because He knows every heart and is a just judge, we can trust Him to make the right judgment regarding someone’s eternity.
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I believe every person has their chance to know the truth and have salvation.
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Its all for God to judge. We can’t assume ones final rest based on what we see unless the one that died acknowledge he was an unbeliever
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But would an unbeliever have the wherewithal to turn to God in the last moments of life in the face of sudden calamity? How many soldiers do you think may have gone out in a blaze of profanities in response to the overwhelming situations they may have faced at the end of their lives? I don’t dismiss the possibility, but it seems unlikely unless the person had been “churched” at some point and the fear of the unknown perhaps triggered a last minute cry to the Lord. What it seems to me is that we are all worthy of hell which is something we can’t grasp in our minds unless the Holy Spirit convicts us and draws us to Christ.
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The scenario is ignorant of why we are deserving of hell.some of these questions/scenarios lack basic wisdom. Smh.
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I think many of you need to take a deep breath and humble yourselves! Shame on you This is a good question my friend.!!! When you ask the question, is this fair? Fair in whose eyes and according to what standard? We cannot measure Gods actions of what is “fair” by our standards….”His ways are above our ways and His thoughts above our thoughts”
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What is fair ? Fair is that we all deserve Hell….Only by God’s Grace can we go to Heaven…..
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It’s not about fairness at all
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I’ve thought of this scenario before, too! It doesn’t seem fair. But I actually found myself assuming it’s possible that God, in his omniscience (middle knowledge? Is that applicable here?) already knew that the circumstances of the victim’s life would not lead him to repentance.
The second answer seems less likely: that the sole purpose of the victim’s life was as a salvation-tool. Why would his life, or even his death have to entail this? God could have multiple purposes for that person’s time on earth, could he not?
Or even his death could have effected multiple purposes or outcomes, even purposes or outcomes that may be observed throughout time.
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On what grounds do you declare the murdered person to have been “good”?
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“Don’t ask why does God save some while daming others; ask why does God save anyone at all”.
All have sinned (there is no innocent victim when it comes to offending God’s holiness we all fall short of His glory. -
Death is blind and unfeeling. Death does not care where you spend eternity. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow or even our next breath.
Scripture warns us of life’s frailty and unpredictability with the simple invention, “today is the day of salvation.” -
Trust God, he knows what he is doing. His thoughts are not our thoughts his ways are nothing our ways.
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The only unforgivable sin is to deny God’s existence.
The person murdered would go to Hell.
Jesus said if you deny me in life I will deny you on Judgement.
Or words to that effect.
As for the murderer — Salvation and forgiveness are granted to all who truly converts in his/her heart. Hear those words : TRULY CONVERT.
We, as human beings, have no say in how God dispences judgement.
It’s a hard truth for some to accept, but it is the truth. -
I actually find this to be a rather troubling dilemma for the Christian. I actually wrote a bit on the topic…
https://helmsofphilosophy.wordpress.com/2019/09/28/the-god-of-disappointment/
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I know a young man who’s mom was murdered & he wonders the same thing
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It is not a matter of fairness, it is a matter of GRACE. Grace has been extended to all people, the circumstances of them denying or accepting depend on their faith. We are all born with sin and therefore separated from God. Whether murdered or dying at 100 grace has been extended and fairness is a human concept.
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Fair according to what standard?
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We are born into this world infected with the sin nature. An inherited birth defect caused by the disobedience of the 1st people ever. As unfortunate as that is, there is a cure. A blood transfusion by the only holy sinless Son of God. He shed His blood for us on Calvery and if we only believe and receive that truth then we are saved. The blood of Jesus is the only cure for sin.
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Okay, let’s add a few concepts that are left out. First thing is that there are two redirections and if you are going to be with Jesus, He will be here on Earth for eternity after His return in Glory…
Second concept is that of slavery, slavery to the forces of evil that we are to be freed from spoken of in the Gospels..
So take Moses now who killed the slaver. The slaver may go to Hell after judgement..
But Moses went already to be with God..
Is that fair.?..
Is forgiveness fair?
Sin is sin and none of us are worthy of salvation.
No one would enter into the kingdom of heaven if we were judged by human standards.
It is best not to judge and not to practice judging others even in scenarios, it opens the heart to dangerous practice, and if we judge others, we too shall be judged.
Didn’t Jesus say that anger without cause is murder?
Have you ever been angry without cause?
If you judge that all murderers go to Hell or should, then are you condemning yourself to eternal damnation as well?
Be careful with your heart…
Please.. -
That’s exactly how that works.
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You are guaranteed no time on this Earth. After you understand Good and Evil you are accountable. This is why it is so important to make your life right now, not after 50 years of having ‘fun’.
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Heres the thing. I believe in predestination, meaning that I believe in the ideology that God knows beginning to end what is going to happen and what isnt. Not to say that He is forcing it to, so-to-speak, but that He knows what is going to happen. The person who was murdered and goes to hell, if they went to hell, they were obviously not living the right way and weren’t submitted to God or chose not to believe in Him. To say its unfair would contradict the nature of God. Much like it is a choice to accept God into your life, we have the choice to reject God and turn away from Him as well. No man is promised tomorrow and for this person, it just happened to be that day for them. They chose not to know God which God obviously does not find pleasure in, and it would have hurt Him to see this person die because we are all His children and His nature is love. From a fleshly perspective, the murderer to went to jail, accepted salvation and got to go to heaven, should have not been able to do that. From a Godly perspective though, that’s just God’s nature and what the very definition of salvation is; ridiculous, reckless, undeserved grace for our sins. To be forgiven and to spend eternity with Him. That is all He desires from us but it is our choice to make. One chose death and the wage of sin is just that, death. One chose life. To say that either outcome is fair or unfair would, again, contradict the nature of God and who He is.
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To add to that, I dont believe that the victim’s sole purpose on earth was for another person’s salvation. I believe we all have a call on our lives and that when we choose to walk with God, we choose to walk in it. If we choose not to walk with God, we are not walking in our true purpose. The only person who would have known that persons true purpose would be God.
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I think the answer is quite simple… God provided salvation to everyone. the timing of their life to choose him is completely up to the individual.. scripture warns everyone not to wait too long “today is the acceptable day” everyone should choose Jesus before they get killed or die of natural causes.. putting the focus on any individual is doing the same thing that the law did.. man does not belong in the equation of salvation.. only God and Jesus do.. just receive Him before your finish line on earth
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Short answer- God is sovereign.
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Kinda sounds like the story of David having Bathshebas husband killed in battle…only we don’t know his salvation…
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