← Back to Feed
Author

The thief on the cross argument- The argument is that…

5 years ago • January 5, 2022 • by ourCOG

The thief on the cross argument- The argument is that the thief on the cross was not baptized and he was saved, therefore I do not need to be baptized in order to be saved.
1. this is silly. We do not know if he was baptized or not. that is an assumption based on no information of his history. Luke 23:42 shows that the thief knew something about the kingdom. That might mean that the thief could have been baptized by John the Baptist (Matt. 3)
1. There are some things today that we are privileged to that wasn’t available to the thief on the cross.

A. Christ had not died yet. Heb 9:16

B. Christ has not yet been buried Rom. 6:4

C. Christ had not yet been raised from the dead Rom. 10:9

D. Christ had not yet given the Great Commission Matt. 28:18-20

Im sorry but this is a bad example for not needing to be baptized as described in Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; Acts 22:16;

Categories: #ourCOG Tags: ,

Discussion

44 comments

  1. Kathy DeVoss says:
    April 29, 2020 at 5:36 pm

    John the Baptist was baptizing for the repentance of sin. Bsptism is not a component of salvation but an outward expression of inner conversion. You do not have to be baptized to be saved

    Reply
  2. Stephen Valenta says:
    April 29, 2020 at 5:52 pm

    But it IS a good example of baptism doesn’t necessarily save you.

    What happens to someone if they believe the Gospel and repent and on their way to be baptized, they get in a car accident and die?

    Reply
  3. Jerry Duckworth says:
    April 29, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    This is how I feel about Baptismal Regeneration and Works based Salvation

    Reply
  4. Andy Witherall says:
    April 29, 2020 at 6:14 pm

    Please explain Ephesians 2:1-10, describing how baptismal regeneration fits into this passage, and also with central message of Colossians.

    Reply
  5. Kathy DeVoss says:
    April 29, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    We beat a lot of dead horses

    Reply
  6. Jojo Olmstead says:
    April 29, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    where is baptism to be saved in here ?
    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for ((salvation)) to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
    Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

    Reply
  7. Stewart MacLeod says:
    April 29, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    Point 1 is laughable did they take him down, baptise him and stick him back up, get a grip. You can’t add baptism to salvation as that makes salvation a works based salvation and this makes what Jesus did on the cross meaningless, baptism is a sign of the covenant that is all.

    Reply
  8. David Stacks says:
    April 29, 2020 at 8:18 pm

    This was over 2000 years ago and the topic is baptism. Today you will be with me in paradise.

    Reply
  9. Teddeo Roque says:
    April 29, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    You are allowing your self to be baptized by the water because you are saved , because of your faith ,and not to be saved .

    Reply
  10. Teddeo Roque says:
    April 29, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    As you said , I do not need to be baptized in order to be saved ,surely they do not say that , instead they say , I need to be baptized because I’m saved ,and they do it ,

    Reply
  11. Jon Snider says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:04 pm

    Batism is merely the 1st step of obedience.

    Reply
  12. Prabal Shrestha says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:16 pm

    1 Corinthians 12:13

    “For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

    Acts 1:5

    “…for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

    Matthew 3:11

    “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    Two kinds of Baptism, Holy Spirit’s Baptism and Water Baptism. Holy Spirit’s Baptism is necessary for salvation.

    Reply
  13. Charles Mitchell says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    So would you say no one was able to enter the kingdom of of heaven prior to Jesus resurrection? Moses? David? Adam?

    Reply
  14. Jeff Gibson says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:27 pm

    And what did Paul say about it?

    Reply
  15. Ashley Moore says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    Any true born again believer will follow Jesus and get baptized.

    Reply
  16. Clive Samuels says:
    April 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm

    You get saved through faith in CHRIST. After you are saved however you will have a desire to get baptized.

    Reply
  17. John Wolf says:
    April 29, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    Does it sound even the slightest bit reasonable, not to mention humane, for believers gathered around the thief’s cross, to remove him from the cross (an extremely painful process), baptize him in water, and then nail him back to the cross so his legs could be broken by the Roman centurion to expedite his death? You probably didn’t give it much thought. Just like your question.

    Reply
  18. Mark Lincoln says:
    April 29, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Or … could he (most certainly knew of Christ and been brought up in the Jewish laws, yet early foundation for Catholic in repentance?) for now knowing he was indeed with the Lord. And new without doubt that everything he thought he knew up to that point, with all the mistakes he’s made in life wanted to acknowledge Christ as our savior

    Reply
  19. Rick Wing says:
    April 29, 2020 at 11:57 pm

    If baptism is a requirement for salvation, please sight in scripture where Jesus requires it.

    Reply
  20. Shawn McComas says:
    April 30, 2020 at 12:17 am

    John 3:16 …Who so ever believeth in him … and is baptized… ??‍♂️??‍♂️

    Reply
  21. Kathy DeVoss says:
    April 30, 2020 at 12:28 am

    John3:16-19 does no th contain the words and is baptized. I use NASB

    Reply
  22. Michelle Borum Montgomery says:
    April 30, 2020 at 12:38 am

    Jesus was baptized and He commanded us to be baptized. I wouldn’t take the chance of not doing it.

    Reply
  23. Michelle Borum Montgomery says:
    April 30, 2020 at 12:42 am

    Acts 2:38
    Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    There are denominations that say when you are water baptized you receive forgiveness of sins and receive the Holy Spirit.

    Reply
  24. Aroop Kumar says:
    April 30, 2020 at 2:09 am

    Maybe. But baptism isn’t a requirement for salvation. Belief in Christ’s atoning work definitely is. If baptism is a requirement, it makes it a “work” for salvation. And that’s totally against the teaching of the NT. Eph 2:7-9

    Reply
  25. Phillip Dow says:
    April 30, 2020 at 4:21 am

    This is not a good rebuttal.

    Reply
  26. K.D. Randolph says:
    April 30, 2020 at 4:29 am

    Scripture refutes this.

    Reply
  27. Madison Willoughby says:
    April 30, 2020 at 6:27 am

    First, if the thief on the cross had been baptized prior to his crucifixion, why hadn’t his life changed in such a way that he shouldn’t have been on the cross? He admitted he deserved to be there, so why hadn’t his life reflected his salvation? Second, what he knew of the kingdom was what he’d heard either heard or seen from Jesus Himself, or about Jesus through word of mouth. When Christ hung on that cross the goodness within Him had to emanate from Him because even the Roman captain recognized Christ’s innocence and praised God because of it. It is reasonable to conclude the same happened for the thief. I would imagine hanging naked before a crowd of people while nailed to a cross, facing your mortality, would pull forth any humility remaining in a person. One thief found the humility to accept Jesus. The other didn’t.

    With regards to part 2 of your OP; since Jesus’ sacrifice goes back in time to cover those who died before He came to earth as a human (1 Peter 3:18-19) none of these considerations are important. Do you believe that God would deny the thief entrance to heaven after Jesus said he was saved? Since God and Jesus are one in the same, how would that work?

    Personally, I believe baptism is important. If it weren’t, Jesus wouldn’t have taken time out of His earthly ministry to example it for us. But since Jesus was already perfect He didn’t example it as a means unto salvation, but as a representation that He belonged to God (1 Peter 3:21 ‘figure or picture’ is defined as a representative). Baptism is an outward expression of an inward change. Jesus had no inward change because of His perfection, but He knew those who believed in Him would and would need to be identified as changed. The inward change of faith is what saves us, as countless scriptures tell, but baptism shows we belong to God, that we have a clean conscience before Him. The verse which speaks of the ark in 1 Peter 3:20-21 mentions the ark and being saved through water because Noah’s faith is what got him on the boat. The flood waters demonstrated, represented, that Noah’s conscience was clean before God. This is the very reason God chose Noah in the first place, that he alone was righteous among the vicious evil people of his day.

    The thief had the inward change necessary for salvation. He simply wasn’t able to be baptized.

    Reply
  28. Ian Hartley says:
    April 30, 2020 at 7:45 am

    He died first. I guess if you die before you can be Baptised that voids the requirement. The Salvation Army was a Powerful Evangelistic organisation when it started and General Booth considered Evangelism to be of more importance than Baptism so they did not consider Baptism as essential.

    Reply
  29. Julius Quiam says:
    April 30, 2020 at 7:59 am

    Plus Jesus has the power to forgive sins on earth. If Jesus said he will be in paradise…..I am not going to argue with that.

    1. How does anyone know that he hasn’t been BAPTISE with John baptism?
    2. He knew about the Kingdom and that’s what John was preaching.
    3. He knew that was Jesus and He was innocent.

    You are right….this is a weak argument!! Amen.

    Reply
  30. Dee Guest says:
    April 30, 2020 at 9:17 am

    Erick Clemons Good thought. We always think of the thief as being unsaved, perhaps he was merely a backslidden believer who had erred.

    Reply
  31. Micaiah Young says:
    April 30, 2020 at 9:36 am

    There would have been no need for the thief to say remember me if baptism saved him there would have been no need at all! You can’t make that argument either

    Reply
  32. Micaiah Young says:
    April 30, 2020 at 9:41 am

    https://youtu.be/tRApSu-7G3A

    Reply
  33. Micaiah Young says:
    April 30, 2020 at 9:42 am

    Watch this

    Reply
  34. Toni Armstrong says:
    April 30, 2020 at 10:43 am

    The thief on the cross is before the outpouring of the Spirit so he wouldn’t be in the first resurrection He is in the grave awaiting the resurrection from the dead and judgement

    Reply
  35. Steven Wells says:
    April 30, 2020 at 11:33 am

    Baptism for salvation no but for obedience and public declaration yes

    Reply
  36. Shane Dulay says:
    April 30, 2020 at 11:53 am

    Baptism isn’t necessary for salvation. It’s much like a public announcement. Like when couples wear rings to show they are married.

    Reply
  37. Jeremy Bickel says:
    April 30, 2020 at 12:05 pm

    Acts 2:38 was Peter telling the nation of Israel what to do after realizing that they murdered their long-awaited Messiah. Similar to this is Acts 22:16, where Paul is told to be baptized. Look back a few verses at verse 12, “Ananias, a devout man according to the law”. A person who was devout according to the law told Paul to be baptized. It was simply their way and has nothing to do with salvation under the New Covenant, per se. Consider Mark 16:16 – “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” Notice that in the positive case, baptism is mentioned. Being baptized was normal in their culture. Verbal confession is similar to this for Gentiles. See the last part of the verse; in the negative case, not being baptized is not part of the curse. In both the positive and the negative formulation, however, belief is required. We are to verbally confess Master Jesus for salvation – not get baptized (Romans 10:9a & 10:10b). Baptism isn’t disallowed – we have freedom – especially if it means to you and those who witness it what it meant to the Jews of that day.

    Reply
  38. Mark August says:
    April 30, 2020 at 2:47 pm

    Good post

    Reply
  39. Isaiah Hess says:
    April 30, 2020 at 5:07 pm

    I’m sorry, Erick Clemens, but this is an example of Judaizer theology and poor hermeneutics.

    You need to repent of your accursed theology.

    Reply
  40. Kathy DeVoss says:
    April 30, 2020 at 5:49 pm

    Why can’t we just take God at His word. If Jesus told the thief he would be in paradise then he is in paradise. What is all this pointless banter about was the thief baptized or a backslidden believer. Just take God at His word

    Reply
  41. Grant Reedy says:
    April 30, 2020 at 5:52 pm

    In order to be baptised, (full immersion water baptism) it would actually be beneficial to know exactly what one is being purified of in the first place.

    Curse of the serpent ring any bells ? for anyone?
    Of course not as most have absolutely no idea what that even means, but here they are presenting arguments from ignorance none the less.

    Don’t know why Christ did things? Just follow and do exactly what Christ did in context of scriptures and we will call it faith rather than ignorance in not coming to the knowledge of God, as God requires all mankind to do so.

    Reply
  42. Kathy DeVoss says:
    April 30, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    How about being redeemed from the curse of sin and death

    Reply
  43. Toni Armstrong says:
    April 30, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    The baptism is a baptism of repentence which is what the thief did when he acknowledge Christ while on the cross

    Reply
  44. The thief on the cross argument- The argument is that… #ourCOG – ourcog says:
    May 11, 2021 at 3:00 pm

    […] The thief on the cross argument- The argument is that… […]

    Reply

Related Posts

Plans Continue for ‘Praying Church’ Conference

March 7, 2012

Edwin W. Woodward, Jacksonville, N.C.

December 9, 2021